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Clutch or tranny problems? Not sure...

  • Thread starter Thread starter GregM.
  • Start date Start date
G

GregM.

Guest
Haven't ridden my 850 for a year - Mechanical issues, distractions, poor priorites... Anyway, now all that is taken care of (many of you have been very helpful with advice that really helped ) and I've been having a good time riding all over, and commuting a bit for the last 3 weeks. Everything working as Suzuki intended - it's a nice bike.

Question: Lately I've noticed that when I start out for the first time on a ride (the bike has warmed up on choke, and is then idleing smoothly without choke)... I shift into 1st (with a major clunk) and the bike immediately LURCHES forward !! About a foot before I can stop it with arms and legs. It still wants to roll ahead... I try to shift back into nuetral and it won't, so I just ride off (ready to go anyway). It's an effort to get into 2nd or any other gear.

Later I notice that shifting into 1st from nuetral, or any other gear is much smoother. And the lurching forward all but disappears. What's wrong with my transmission?? Or does my clutch need adjusting? How do you know?

Any thoughts or advice will be much appreciated.
 
Because your bike has sat for a year, your clutch plates will tend to bind causing the clutch to drag when you start to use it again. All big bikes seem to do this when not operated regularly.
Take the bike for a lengthly run, working it by changing up and down gears. You should find that it will operate normally again when you return home. A check that the clutch adjustment is correct would also help.
 
When the lurching shift into gear and the Flintstone style braking is required, what RPM is the engine idling at?
When the neutral can be easily found, and little drive drag is apparent, what RPM is the engine idling at?
How much "free play" does your clutch lever have?

Without answers to these questions, I will jump ahead, and usually end up hanging myself, but suggest you may have an oil, level, or oil specification, or oil quality problem.

Drain the crankcase, change the filter, and add the proper multiviscosity oil with the correct API rating with and the proper amount. Check yourtrans fluid too. MAke sure its full with the proper amount, but not over full.
 
Trans fluid? When did I switch over to the harley board?

Which GS's have separate oil and trans fluid? On every bike I've ever owned there hasn't been a separate reservior for the transmission that I know of. I'm not calling you out, I know there's a TON of stuff I don't know about bikes, but if my bike has separate tanks I'd really like to know!

I've really got to get a manual for this thing......
 
Thanks for the ideas... you both mention checking clutch "free play"... and to check for proper clutch adjustment.

Can you be more specific? What should it be?? How do you adjust it??

And I have taken it out for a few 1 hour rides... but really, the trans. seems to operate normally even after only 10 or 15 min.

RPM when it lurches, or when it doesn't, is approx 1100.

I just did a recent oil and filter change... correct oil, and correct level.

Here's something else I'm wondering - What's the effect of a cooler outside temperature ??? Lately it's been in the mid-40's early in the morning.
How does that factor into this? Compared to starting the bike in 60 degree temps. Sticky oil??

Any cool weather riders out there that could shed any light on this.
Thanks again :)
 
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The trans and engine share oil (both the chain & shaft motors)
??? is what type of oil are you using ?? recomended 10-40 ?? OR
if you are using 20-50 IT WILL do what you are discribing when cold

The shaft drive does have an extra oil system for the secondary beveled gear uses 90 wt gear oil
 
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I'm using 10W-40 Pennzoil in the engine.
Do you think the cooler outside temp could be causing this? Because the lurching didn't seem to be nearly as much when it was warmer out. And again, even when it is 45 degrees out and I'm riding, after 15 min it seems to operate pretty smoothly.
I still would appreciate you guys to educate me about correct clutch operation... and if neccessary - how to adjust it.

Thanks so much !!
 
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Greg
My Clymer manual suggests the following for the 850's.
Check that the clutch cable is routed correctly. It should travel from the handlebars down the left side of the frame (under the tank) and downwards between #1 & #2 carb boots then turn at right angles toward the clutch lever mounted on top of the engine case.
Now screw in the handlebar cable adjuster completely and secure it with the knurled locknut.
Turn the cable adjuster on the engine until you get 2-3mm of freplay at the handlebar lever. Now secure the cable adjuster with the locknut and cover it with the rubber boot. Voila.
Any futher reduction in freeplay can be done at the handlebars as the cable stretches in service.
I have the same clutch drag on my bike after it sits for any period of time.
I have experimented with mineral and synthetic oils of varying viscosities with the synthetics performing slightly better.
Our engines run quite hot, so it appears you either compromise engine protection or have a smoother operating clutch depending on your choice of oils.
 
txironhead
since the fella had an 850G, i thought but nmay be incorrect that it was a shaft drive, as designated by the "G". It should have a seperate drain, fill and level plug for 90 weight gear oil as does my 1100glz. AND my 650 66' BSA lightning has a seperate transmission drain and fill for gear oil. This is the "unit" engine as well, not seperate engine and seperate transmission, which was older design.
vic
 
I have a 77 750 that is very crabby in the morning as you have desribed your 850. she particularly does not like to be told what to do when it is cold outside. I do find that once she is up and around awhile her disposition significantly improves.

I have passed this off as wierd clutch disc phenomena, and have learn to adjust to her erotic, I mean eratic behavior. I have recently changed to synthetic oil to see if this would have any impact, the jury is still out on this one.

I expect to live with this condition untill I become williing to replace her clutch discs.
 
My '79 850 does the exact same thing at idle when the clutch needs adjusting and/or when the oil is cold. I run 20W50 in the warm months and until the oil warms up it doesn't shift smoothly. This time of year up here in the great white north, I run 10W40.
 
My gs550 does the same with barnett clutch fibers and EBC extra stiff springs..

It's just your clutch/oil/engine being cold and stubborn.

What i have found the best thing to do is shift to 2nd, and then tap down to 1st. Then ride off.
 
Cold weather operation will absolutely make gear shift operations worse. Once the bike has totally warmed up (10 min or so), it'll start shifting easier. It takes awhile for the clutches to warm up the oil. I ride mine in low temps all the time, just got used to the shifting difficulties in cold weather operation. My Jeep is just as temperamental for other reasons.:-D
 
rgierer said:
I have a 77 750 that is very crabby in the morning as you have desribed your 850. she particularly does not like to be told what to do when it is cold outside. I do find that once she is up and around awhile her disposition significantly improves.

I have passed this off as wierd clutch disc phenomena, and have learn to adjust to her erotic, I mean eratic behavior. I have recently changed to synthetic oil to see if this would have any impact, the jury is still out on this one.

I expect to live with this condition untill I become williing to replace her clutch discs.
Click to expand...
Wouldn't a worn clutch create less of a drag?
 
My bike does exactly the same thing when cold, even with a brand new clutch and springs and a properly adjusted cable. I'm running abit heavier oil so that's part of it. Once the oil warms up and is flowing more freely, it behaves like it should. If it really bothers you, use the adjuster at the handle lever to tighten the action a tad bit while it's cold. I just make sure I've got the brakes applied when shifting into first in the morning.
 
Thanks a ton... ALL very helpful.

Is this cold weather "lurching", when first dropping it into 1st... and "stiff and difficult shifting", for 15 min till it gets hotter... HARD on the equipment at all??

Would a NEW bike do this?
Is there something to do to my clutch or tranny that would eliminate this?
I'd like to do some early morning commuting on dry days this winter... but it could be in the upper 30's or low 40's.

Would I notice an improvement SWITCHING to a 5W-30? Could this cause any harm to the engine once things are hot and a long ride.

If you all say it's better for the engine to stay with the 10W-40... then, I guess I would eventually get used to this. I just don't want to do anything that will be TOO hard on my old bike.
Translation :: I'm MUCH more into riding it... then repairing it, or even doing "extra" up-keep and maintenance to it :)
 
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I don't imagine one or two "difficult" shifts in the morning will do any damage. A lighter oil would help, but it's much more important to keep the rest of the bike (motor, tranny) happy so I'd stick with whatever weight your manual recommends.

I think the root cause is the design of the clutch. For whatever reason there is some hydraulic friction between the plates even when released. Is this normal for all bikes/new bikes? Probably not. Is it normal for GSs? Sounds like it.

Just make sure your cable is properly adjusted (should be 2-3mm free play in the lever action when you pull it before it starts to engage) and just ride the sucker!
 
When it's 45 deg outside their is nothing you can do except let it warm up.
DO NOT START your GS when cold while in gear, have it in netural.
I ususally work the clutch lever 6 time when cold. If it's really cold BE CAREFULL the bike doesn't get away from you, keep your foot on the brake.
 
You guys that experience a sticky clutch is simply LACK of oil between the friction plates. When you pull your clutch, all the friction discs are supposed to separate from the steel discs. The engine drives the friction plates, the steel plates transfer power to the tranny.Idealy when all the plates properly disengage, the friction plates are always spinning, BUT the steels are supposed to stop spinning. all's it takes is one friction disc to drag along with a spinning steel disc to cause a bike to jump into gear, or shift hard. Cold thick oil further aggravates this. Sometimes you can simply work the clutch in and out with a cold engine to allow some oil to get between the plates, and allow them to totally disengage. An old scool trick to rid bikes of this problem is to drill severall .125" oil feed holes into the inner hub to allow some extra oil to get between the friction plates. I had to do this on my son's Kawasaki KX65 dirtbike. The bike literally would not go into gear if the bike sat for a month or so without being used, from the clutch pack being completely stuck together. I found a Kawasaki service bullitin that gave me the fix. Luckily for me , my GS1100's clutch action is mint in all conditions.
 
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You guys are the best... getting this info about how GS mechanicals works, is so helpful to me. Your time and patience is VERY much appreciated.

1 - I checked my clutch freeplay (2 - 3 mm) and that looks good.
2 - It seems to operate fine in the cool mornings, AFTER easy riding for 15 min.
3 - Info you've given me about what is going on inside the "tranny" or "gearbox" (is that the same thing?) helps me understand why it's doing this now, in the cool weather, but didn't do it, in warmer temps.
4 - No one really suggested switching to 5W-30, instead of the 10W-40 that I'm using, to eliminate this cold temp clutch drag... So, I guess that's a bad idea. I'll stick with the 10W-40.
5 - If it's happening in 45 degree temps... it's really going to "lurch" when it's 35 out... Isn't it??? (I'm not riding (commuting) if it's colder than that.) :)
6 - I'll use ALL your tips : warm the bike up longer, pull and release the clutch lever several times, always start in neutral (I do), apply front brake before CLUNKING it into gear, and get it into 2nd first to loosen things up a bit before dropping into 1st.

O.K. - I'm an expert... I can make these suggestions to the next rookie that raises this issue this winter. Ha-ha-ha- :)
 
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