Clutch sounds like a box of rocks

[83-1100-laverne]

Hello all. Well, after cooking my stator and regulator on a ride last week, that is all squared away. I have had a pretty bad knocking coming from the clutch case so I decided to look into it. It seems that the outer basket is rocking on the shaft. There is a large wide bearing in there that this rides on and I can look into the oil filler hole and see the basket moving (wobbling) ( while the bike is running. The noise makes your teeth itch.) There is a small plasticy looking black cushion in one of the recesses for the oil pump drive. What is this supposed to do? Tightening the clutch nut will have no effect since it only tightens against the inner race of the large bearing that the basket rides on. With the clutch cover off and nothing loosened or removed, you can wobble the clutch basket on the shaft what I think is a inordinate amount. Would a new bearing help correct this? I never heard of a bearing shrinking or wearing away and the bearing/races all look fine. The bike has 20K on it. The noise goes away if I rev it up a bit or if I load up the clutch like riding. But, at an idle, you can hear it for a city block, or so it would seem. Thanks and ride safe.

 

[blowerbike]

remove your entire clutch basket assembly all the way back to the transmission bearing and inspect everything.
simple job..
sounds like your baskets coming apart

**i assume this is a 1100 GS***

 

[83-1100-laverne]

remove your entire clutch basket assembly all the way back to the transmission bearing and inspect everything.
simple job..
sounds like your baskets coming apart

**i assume this is a 1100 GS***

Yes, it is a GS1100. Fantastic bike, if only I could get ahead of the gremlins. I have had the entire clutch out several times all the way back to the tranny bearing and the only thing I could find was the play in the big bearing that the basket rides on. The basket will move (wobble if you will) on the shaft slightly but enough to make all kinds of noise. Only at low speed and only when it is warm. Not hot. Hot it really comes undone. Run it for about 2 minutes and it starts in. Although I can not see anything amiss with the bearing, I am going to change it out since it fairly cheap and honestly the only thing I can see that would cause this movement. The large ring gear and basket are loose on the shaft and move (wobble) as a unit. I have ridden it on many long rides and it hasn't come apart, but the noise at traffic lights is unreal. Thank the Lord that there aren't many of those up here, lights I mean. What I am thinking is that the way the gears are beveled, every time it fires and pushes the clutch, it also applies outward pressure on the basket causing the knocking sound. Does this sound like it would be possible. Around 1500 or so it goes away. Sounds like cam walk, I know, but it is most certainly coming out of the clutch case. Thanks for reading this diatribe. Ride safe.

 

[83-1100-laverne]

No ideas? Guess I will just toss in the towel. Already did a R/R and Stator and now maybe a clutch basket and bearing? Getting into real money. A man has to cut his losses at some point after all. Bike is really clean and only has 20K on it. My old Honda CB650C, 1980 vintage is going to have to fill the void. Been in mothballs for around 5 years. Parked it at 52K miles. Needs a starter motor but what is a man to do?
On the Zuk, the large springs on the clutch basket are loose while the smaller ones are tight. Kind of between a rock and a hard place with this. Hate to drop the coin on a basket and so on just to still make the same noises. How it could, I don't know but gambling has never been my strong suit. Peace and keep the rubber side down.

 

[blowerbike]

i am just not sure on your noise.
can you move the basket and the gear away from each other?
side to side and how much front to back(twist).
if the noise is in the clutch area you should see the problem with the assembly removed.

 

[Flyboy]

Sounds like you may have loose rivets, I know they take care of it by welding, Search is your friend, here are a few threads to get you started.
http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=160396&highlight=clutch+basket

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=158543&highlight=clutch+basket

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=130322&highlight=clutch+basket

 

[Nessism]

Sounds like you may have loose rivets, I know they take care of it by welding, Search is your friend, here are a few threads to get you started.
http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=160396&highlight=clutch+basket

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=158543&highlight=clutch+basket

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=130322&highlight=clutch+basket

Amazing what one can find using the search function!:-\\\

Oh, and it's not "loose rivets", the clutch hub cushion springs are loose creating slack, and noise. Proper fix is to have the clutch hub rebuilt with a HD back plate or buy a new one.

 

[tom203]

Ford was prez when I last did dirt bike clutch, but...... You say you can wobble large ring gear ? basket wobble is ok, but gear deflection ( other than along clutch axis) is troublesome. Doublecheck diagrams to ensure all parts ( thrust washers, etc. ) are there and facing right direction- maybe PO pulled clutch at one time. Bevel gears would be nasty with too much slop, especially with little load on them at idle and clutch in. It seems the big bearing is not able to hold the alignment, so you have to determine why.

 

[83-1100-laverne]

Thanks to everyone. I had done a search and found alot of info regarding the clutch spring noise but over looked or just plain missed the one on the shim. Anywho, I broke it all down again and found that who ever had gone before me had put the primary driven gear spacer in backwards, with the recess for the oil pump gear bearing on the outside, away from the oil pump gear bearing which was holding the spacer out too far creating alot of run out. I reversed it and it is much quieter although it still seems to have some excess run out and makes a bit of noise. Nothing like it was however. In the diagram that posplayr posted, it shows the acceptable clearance for this to be .03 to .08 mm. I measured it with a .08mm feeler and it is excessive. When I did some math on total height minus thickness of the washer and spacer, it came out that the clearance is .27mm. So, I guess I would be looking for a shim on the order of .2mm or .008 inches to put behind the large washer to take up this run out while still maintaining the .07mm clearance that is recommended. Is this logic correct? Like I said, it is much better and it seems to even shift smoother. It used to be quite clunky between gears which in hindsight MAY have been being caused by the clutch wobbling causing the plates to bind a bit and not completely release. Just a thought. I notice davel mentioned in one of his posts that he removed .3mm from his spacer instead of using the shim/thrust washer. My question is, how does this occur? I see nothing worn or chewed up. .3mm is a large space to just have appear out of nowhere. Anyway, I am on the hunt for this shim and will probably do a basket rebuild too at this point and get rid of them loose springs. Thank you to all of you that pitched in. I sincerely appreciate it. Now I have a plan of action and Laverne and I should coexist in harmony. Again... thank you all!! Peace

 

[83-1100-laverne]

Hi again. Still looking for a shim but am riding it the way it is. Seems much quieter now. Where to get this elusive shim is still another issue but the bike is tolerable so I am in no big sweat for it. Thanks to all that pitched in!!

 

[Richard58]

put new clutch springs in before whole clutch see if that is the fix b4 doing whole clutch replacing.