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coil aggravations!!

  • Thread starter Thread starter Anonymous
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Anonymous

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:evil: OK, here's the situation. I have an '82 GS1100GK with about 8000 miles that you folks helped me get running. Other than a carb rebuild that was necessitated by previous owner meddling, everything's stock and original. About 2 months ago, just as it was getting icy on the road, I lost a coil. I looked around and finally got a pair off Ebay since I'm not made of money. I get them in and one is missing a cap. It was there, but I'm not sure you can just push it in. First question; can you just insert the wire lead into the plug lead and silicone it or toss the coil? 2nd, I get one coil in to replace the bad one, and put everything back together and the battery's dead from the cold. I jump the battery off my Nissan Stanza, but can't get it started. It turned over fast with the battery boost, but I still have to check for fire. Here are the rest of my questions:
1) Can I safely jump the GK off my car, or am I looking to burn up the starter and wiring?
2) I am getting fuel. After performing the old "plug wire against the block trick" to check for fire out of both coils, where do I go from there? Or should I just start saving my pennies for a trip later this spring to the shop? I have mechanical skills and some tools and a voltmeter, but the Clymer doesn't begin to cover this.....Thanx for all you folks do, Jerry
 
Ok first yes you can just push the cap back on, give it a twist to be sure it seats nicely, you should not need to silicone it.
you should remove the battery from the GK and fully charge it in preference to jumping from a car they crank out some amazing cranking amps, which I would prefer not to load my bikes system with.
how long has the bike been sitting it may just require some fresh fuel.
Dink
 
Soryy I omitted that. The fuel is the same that was in it when I took the tank off 2 months ago. I also wonder if I should crank the throttle a couple of times to insure the carb bowls got full, although I would think the first minute or so of cranking would have gotten them loaded.
 
If your fuel is two months old it should still be OK, but it's mid-way, going downhill. It's common lately for fuel to go from good to bad in about four months, because of additives.

Dink is right about using a full-charged battery...spins it over much better than one that has only a partial charge. You should always take the battery off the bike for recharging.

I have seen many comments about using a car battery to jump-start a bike, and never understood the concern. No argument about the amperage differences...my car battery has a cold-crank rating of 1000 amperes....against 18 amps for the bike! I don't see that it makes a difference in application though, as your starter and ignitions will only draw as much as they need.

My serious concern about jumping anything is an incorrect use of cables. Most people don't realize how dangerous it is.

If you have a running car system connected by cables to your battery, you will immediately be charging the dead battery, and that means immediately generating hydrogen gas which is extremely flammable/explosive.

When you disconnect the cabes there is ALWAYS a spark, and that's all it takes to explode the hydrogen, or cause a fire.

Proper use of cables means having the positive cable attached directly to both batteries, but the negative one should be connected to the good battery directly, and the other end must always be connected to the frame or engine of the vehicle to be started, some distance away from the battery. The negative cable on the frame/engine should be connected last and should be disconnected first.

That way the spark is some distance away from the battery, and there is reduced chance of fire or explosion.
 
It's been said before It is fine to jump start with car battery.. JUST MAKE SURE the car is not running!!!!!!
 
Geez, it may be a moot point. I just stopped by WallyWorld (WalMart) and found they are now stocking batteries for the GK for $32.00. If I can cajol the wife into a check I'll end the discussion of the battery. I just wonder how long it takes to kill a new battery....No, don't EVEN go there!!
 
After adding acid a New 14 ah MC battery should be charged overnight (min 8-10 hrs) before use with 1 amp charger
 
Jumping from a car battery is fine, running or not. The circuits are connected in parallel. The car battery acts as a voltage source and supplies only as much current as is needed on the motorcycle side - running or not. You should not need to start the car however as there should be plenty of current available.

Argonsagas made some good points about battery connections.
 
I DISAGREE do NOT have the car running some cars have up to 100 amp alternators and can damage the MC battery
 
Hmmm, what do you base this running thing on? I hate to disagree also, but my degree is in electrical engineering. Circuit theory is what I'm basing my opinion on. Can you tell my why a current source (alternator) connected in a charging configuration to an votlage source (car battery) that is in turn connected in parallel to a load would deliver excess current? Email me if you would like to discuss this on technical tems if you don't want to do it here.
 
Starter motors are usually dead shorts to ground so they will take all the current available. I bet if I tried to jump either of my bikes with my vans 1000 amp battery they wouldn't last long. This is because most starters are built so that they build up more and more strength in their magnetic fields and continue to build up speed (this is why you need to give up after 30 seconds, heat is also part of the trouble but directly related). This can lead to them spinning so fast that the copper bars in the centre seperate and lock up the starter... I don't believe the vehicle running would cause much more trouble in the case of my van boosting a bike but I'm up for a discussion. I'll be an Electronics Engineer in 3 months. :)

Steve
 
If the battery is dead the charge from the car alt could charge the battery at rate in excess of 25amps or more. exceding the batterys ah rating. It would be like hooking up a 25+ amp battery charger to your battery
Not good
 
I agree, the downstream electronics of the GS will not take such a surge of amperage. I know, as My brother fried the Stator in his older GS1100 doing it with a 6 amp car charger, and the battery connected (much the same as a jump start).
 
dam, a lot of misinformation here. starter motors are not direct shorts to ground (close - read on) - not even in the worst case scenario for a motor - that is the armature shaft is siezed and not allowed to turn when a current is applied. in this case the current is only limited by the resistance in the armature wiring. this will draw quite a bit of current. when allowed to turn, however, the motor develops a back emf that is proportiona to the armature angular velocity that limits the current. btw, the heat build up in your starter is a natural product of the inefficiency of the starter and actually helps limit the current as the windings have a positve temperature coefficient. yes, heat will eventually hurt the starter - excessive heat is bad for most electronics

The torque developed by interaction of the permanent magnet field and armature current is distributed between acceleration of the rotor mass, viscous friction torque, static or dynamic friction torque (t(fricls_w)), and torque delivered to the external mechanical connection (t(wrm)).

For p=1:
kt?ia = j?d(w_rps)/dt + d?w_rps + t(fricls_w) + t(wrm)

check out your circuit theory on dc permanent magnet motors. anyway, yoiu guys believe what you want.
 
Charging, voltages etc.

Charging, voltages etc.

Engineer here too, like Swanny. If you take a 120volt 60watt light bulb and put it on a service that is 120volts and capable of 10,000 amps, what happens to the light bulb? It draws 1/2 and amp (60 watts) and works as designed. How much current could you instantaneously get from your 18 amp hour motorcycle battery? (18 amp hour indicates 18 amps for 1 hour or 36 amps for 1/2 hour or how much for 3 seconds?) While a car battery has a large reserve, it can only push at 12volts. The motorcycle electrical system is completely built with 12 volt devices. What happens when you put a 12 volt tail light on a 12 volt battery that is capable of delivering 1000 amps? It lights normally. At 12 volts the light bulb can only draw it's proper current. (Hook it up to 50 volts, then the current skyrockets and you have a flash bulb.) If your house is the only house connected to the Niagara Falls generators (bagillion mega-amps) what would happen? Your house would run perfectly normal, although there is enough current capability available to turn the house in to a super nova, it only draws approximately 100 amps at the proper voltage.
 
I would have to agree I've had a lot of experience with electronics had everything apart from tvs and computers to cars and bikes, and got them to work again. Hooking a device up to too large of a volt source would damage it however it will only flow as many amps as the device is even if the source is much higher in amperage output capabilites. Hell we just ran our entire office for the elevator where i work off of extension cords from across the lot. In which case we had the opposite problem the volts were right but we fried a couple transformers in our lights from too low of amps. anyways off the point a little. You should be able to jump from a car and not hurt anything with no problems.
 
Another failed engineer here. Personally, I don't think there is an issue with jump-staring the motorcycle using your car battery. Even if the car is running, the voltage on the car's battery is regulated (when my van is running I have 14V on my battery no matter how fast the engine is going). So you don't have to worry about how much power the alternator on the car can produce.
 
coil aggravations

coil aggravations

The boosting contraversy has gotten us slightly off topic. Yashana, did you say that you now have spark? Is the concern now fuel? The carb bowls should fill if you put the fuel tank petccock onto the PRI position. In the ON position the fuel flow through the petcock is regulated by vacuum from the carbs. When the engine is running vacuum from the carbs opens the petcock and allow fuel flow. Opening the throttle while trying to start the bike would actually have the opposite affect by reducing vacuum. If you have had the tank off make sure that the vacuum hose from the fuel petcock to the carbs is connected. So, where are we now with solving your problem?

Junkman
 
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