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Condensation in the oil?

  • Thread starter Thread starter gettingtobeaguru
  • Start date Start date
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gettingtobeaguru

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I have a 1977 GS750. On cold mornings and days I notice there is what appears to be fogging on the sight glass. The oil doesn't seem milky.

This has me quite a bit worried because I know oil in the water isn't exactly good when you have a water cooled engine, but I don't know the procedures for an air cooled one. I noticed this awhile back, but it went away the next day (it warmed up, and coincedentally I took it for an hour or so long drive).

What should I do; have any of you had any experience with this? I've done some googling, and it looks like this happens occasionally on dirt bikes. Especially when they are only ridden for short stretches. I ride it every day, but only for 15 minute stretches at the most.

I've been opening up the fill cap once it warms up and letting it idle for a bit to try and cook the water out. What else should I do?



Sorry for the disjointed post, I'm trying to fit in all the facts I feel are relevant.
 
Your bike doesn't have a radiator. There is no where for water to come from. Do you smell gas in your oil? if so your petcock is malfunctioning. When was the last time your oil was changed?
 
Oil was changed less than 2 months ago. I changed it because the bike was knocked over by a neighbor backing out of the parking lot.

No gas smell that I've noticed.

I realize it's not water cooled which is why I'm confused about how water could get in the first place. I'm wondering if maybe rain got in through some gasket somewhere (possibly even the fill cap). I am in Florida so it rains a lot, and heavy. I've got a cover, but water still gets under it somehow.
 
Condensation gets in there when you take it on short runs. Take it for a long ride and it will all be gone. The oil needs to get hot enough to make the condensation go away.
 
That's reassuring to hear Ton. Is there any chance of it causing permanent damage if it gets too much moisture build-up?
 
Condensation in the engine is not something you really want. A good oil will do what oil is supposed to do. And if oil is diluted too much with water and un burned petrol then you will get more wear on the engine. So take it for a good run and do change the oil and filter on time. I change the oil on mine every year even if the bike was hardly used. But I make sure that the bike gets warm enough so no short runs .
 
Short rides on cold, damp days do more than produce condensation in the oil, it's the #1 cause of muffler rot-out. Bikes (or older cars, for that matter) that are ridden that way need more frequent oil changes to stay healthy inside the engine. For instance, when putting the bike up for winter (if that applies), especially if short-ridden, ride it until it's good and hot, change the oil then and there, and leave it ALONE. so many people think that periodic start-ups in times of no riding are good for engines. Not so. If it's going to be laid up for a longer period of time, like a year or more, occasional starter 'bumps', to move the pistons up or down just a bit, so that the rings don't leave a 'legacy' on the cylinders, ESPECIALLY with slightly watery oil, is also a good idea. You could also, probably better, manually turn the crankshaft just a bit by turning the RH crank nut just a bit. Unless the ambient temp is fairly high (depending on location and season) I would tend to avoid short 'errand rides'. I used to live on an island in Maine, maybe a 5-min ride to work, and my oil sight glass was always foggy, tried to balance the go-to-work rides with longer ones after work to 'dry' the oil out.
 
You need to do a 20 mile romp on the bike to get the oil up to temp to burn out the moisture. Short 8-9 miles ride won't even come close. That's the main reason I don't ride my bike to work. I only live about mile, even the long way around isn't but a couple miles. Besides I keep my bike at work anyways lol.
 
Agreed with everything posted above on the longer ride.

Not sure if this applies on your bike but if you see what I am describing in mechanical pieces then it does and should be looked into along with the longer rides.

I had the same problem as you.
Just after a oil change.
More then just the fogged window though,
Had much bubbling and my oil had a milky green look.
The bike was being ridden for longer rides though, back and forth to work with 15-20 min each way.

I really think I may have bought a bad batch of oil.

I asked a friend who raced bikes back in the day and he suggested looking into the following.

The very top of my valve cover has a rectangular cover with a hose coming out that attaches to airbox.
This vents the condensation out of the motor and is assisted with the air pull of the carbs.
You need to make sure the hose is hooked up on both ends and clear for vapor travel.
The plastic nipple the hose attaches to on my airbox was broken.
After fixing and a oil change I never saw greenish big bubbled oil again.


If memory serves I was using either Suzuki or Honda oil at the time.
I switched oil to a diesel engine oil with that oil change.
Have been using diesel type oils ever since.

Also bought a new o-ring for around the filler cap as the bike was parked outside at night and weather exposed.

Made sure all my spark plugs were good and tight.

Bought a bike cover.

Covered all my bases to try and insure it did not reoccur/
Have not had a problem of that type again.
 
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Crankthat -

I found what you were referring to, but it's just a bare nipple. No hose attached. I have pod filters (previous owner installed).
 
My suggestion will make the tree-huggers want to lynch me, but it will help your engine.

Get a new breather hose from Suzuki. It is part number 09352-11153-00B, and is item #14 on THIS PAGE.

Yes, it's just a touch over $24, but you get six feet of hose. Put one end on the breather cover, run the hose over the back of the engine and have it end below the swingarm. If you cut a taper on the end (front lower than the back), it will create a bit of suction as you go down the road, keeping the crankcase vented.

This is the way all the old cars did it, then someone invented "Positive Crankcase Ventilation" (PCV) and cycled the vapors through the engine to burn them, which was better for the environment. Since you no longer have an airbox to route the vapors through the carbs, you can do it like this or find a way to install a catch tank, but you will still need to vent the tank.

.
 
Did the crankcase vent reroute as per Steve's suggestion. I just used 3/8 inch fuel line hose from autozone, which should be about the same thing and ran it down the the swing arm angled away from the rear tire (just in case). I'm a little confused about the cut.

I did like this: ====/


With the cut starting further up the line on the bottom then tapering into a point facing the top.


Secondly I took it for a long ride yesterday and 20 minutes into it I ran into trouble. I was doing about 65 in Fifth when I slowly started losing power. I stopped at a stoplight and it shut off while trying to idle. I got it cranked back up by giving it some gas and pulled into a nearby gas station. After letting it sit a bit I took my helmet off so I could hear it better and it started back up after turning over several times more than normal, but then it idled fine, I even revved it up a bit and it didn't bog down. To me it felt like getting something stuck in the carb and then pulling it through.


I had lunch and let it cool off then I drove it back home. On the way home after driving for a bit it did the same exact thing, but not as severe. I got home and pulled the pod filters off to clean the carbs and there was thin black oily liquid in the carb mouths. Now I'm not quite sure what to do.
 
Strange.
Possibly pinching your fuel or vacuum line with new breather hose install?
 
gettingtobeaguru said:
I got home and pulled the pod filters off to clean the carbs and there was thin black oily liquid in the carb mouths. Now I'm not quite sure what to do.
Click to expand...

Have you made certain that the cam chain adjuster is working properly? Adjusted the valves within the past 4,000 miles?
 
GSX1000E - is there a good online instructional as to how to adjust the valves? I have had the bike less than 1000 miles, but I have no idea what the PO did.


Also I have an inline fuel filter. I cleaned that out after the long ride and there was some fairly large debris in there (looked like the tank coating). I wonder if

A. The debris could have been restricting fuel flow which might have caused my bogging down symptoms.

B. The fuel filter is storing at least an ounce of fuel in it after the bike is shut down. Could that be leaking down into the carb later and replicating a situation (albeit to a lesser extent) like leaving the petcock in primer mode?
 
Last edited:
gettingtobeaguru said:
Did the crankcase vent reroute as per Steve's suggestion. I just used 3/8 inch fuel line hose from autozone, which should be about the same thing and ran it down the the swing arm angled away from the rear tire (just in case). I'm a little confused about the cut.

I did like this: ====/
Click to expand...

From your diagram, there is no way to tell if that is angled correctly, so I will try to describe it a bit better.

The end of the hose will basically be pointing straight down. Cut it at about a 45-degree angle so that the front of the hose is longer than the rear. That will deflect a bit of air away from the tip when the bike is moving, creating a slight suction to keep the hose vented.

Directing the end of the hose away from the tire is not a bad idea, but if you have enough oil vapor coming through that hose to affect the tire, you have other problems that will need to be addressed, too.

.
 
I believe that the tutorial can be found on Basscliff's site. If YOU have never done it since owning the bike, it is a MUST DO.
You also need to check to make certain that the cam chain tensioner is adjusted correctly/working right.
I only have in-line fuel filters on two of my bikes and that is only because one does not have the factory petcock screen and the other has a slightly rusty tank.
I doubt that it would cause a flooding condition if your needles/seats are working. Although, every one of these bikes with CV carbs, I have found the fuel seat O-rings to be leaking and causing a flooding condition.
Have you gotten your O-ring kits from www.cycleorings.com yet and installed them after thoroughly cleaning the carbs?
 
gettingtobeaguru said:
GSX1000E - is there a good online instructional as to how to adjust the valves?
Click to expand...
Evidently you have not been given your Mega-Welcome and been directed to the library, where you can find your Valve Adjustment Tutorial, which supplements, not replaces, your Factory Service Manual.


gettingtobeaguru said:
I have had the bike less than 1000 miles, but I have no idea what the PO did.
Click to expand...
That part is EASY. Unless you were there to watch it happen, it probably didn't.


gettingtobeaguru said:
Also I have an inline fuel filter. I cleaned that out after the long ride and there was some fairly large debris in there (looked like the tank coating).
Click to expand...
Most of us don't like external filters, but it sounds like one is necessary, in your case. Fix the problem with the tank, then get rid of the filter. Unless it is a filter specifically made for a gravity-fed fuel system (unlike cars with fuel pumps), it is probably too restrictive to allow enough fuel to flow.


gettingtobeaguru said:
A. The debris could have been restricting fuel flow which might have caused my bogging down symptoms.
Click to expand...
It certainly didn't help anything.


gettingtobeaguru said:
B. The fuel filter is storing at least an ounce of fuel in it after the bike is shut down. Could that be leaking down into the carb later and replicating a situation (albeit to a lesser extent) like leaving the petcock in primer mode?
Click to expand...
If it is "leaking down", then you have a problem with your float valves, too. Sounds like it's time to catch up on about 30 years worth of past-due maintenance.


Besides the valve adjustment, it's probably a good idea to Rebuild the Carbs, too.

.
 
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