Custom Painting Question(s)

[Nessism]

I don’t think there is anything you need to do special to a gas tank compared anything else you might paint. Metal prep for bare metal is always recommended followed by a good stable two-part primer (PPG DP Epoxy is what I use), after that it’s base coat and clear coat. I recommend keeping within the automotive exterior paint family if you want durable results. Rattle can paint for base coat could work but there is risk of running into compatibility issues. Same goes for clear coat like that Por-15 stuff. Not worth the risk in my opinion. One of the keys to durability is to follow the mfg’s recommendations. For example, the epoxy primer needs to be base coated within some time frame, seven days, and the clear needs to be applied within 24 hours. The idea is for all the different layers to be somewhat wet so they bite into each other.
I love to save money and don’t like having to purchase paint in quantities that is destined to go bad. Maybe what we need is a GSR group buy – and someone willing to repackage in small quantities. I’d do it but I can’t buy the “good” paint here in So. Calif. due to VOC regulations.

 

[Schweisshund]

I was thinking the same thing about group buying paint - 5 gallons of the clear txironhead mentioned is $750 :-D

In my opinion, paint suppliers should also include clear coat quantities for airbrushes. I am thinking 5 oz. of clear should be plenty for my bike. As I understand it, it will only need two thin coats of clear. The 5 ozs. could do that. I would set up all the parts I am painting together to conserve paint.

maybe even 3 ozs. of clear and 3 ozs. of hardener.
I will be asking North Georgia Collision Supply about it.

 

[Billy Ricks]

I'd be up for a group buy on the clear. Is that one 5 gal container or smaller volumes that make up the 5 gal?

 

[Schweisshund]

http://www.por15.com/s.nl/it.A/id.1435/.f?sc=2&category=234

Anyone use Glisten PC from POR-15? Takes a while to completely cure, but looks like great stuff. $31.25 a pint, looks like it comes with hardener. All of their other products I've tried have been top-notch.

Here is the stuff TXironhead mentioned. It looks to me like POR-15 has been recommended by everyone who has used it. I even heard its the best gas tank sealer if your tank is rusted on the inside. The Collision Supplier I went to had a person who told me they used to supply POR-15 and he glanced around the store as he said it. I will dig deeper :-D

 

[Billy Ricks]

Here is the stuff TXironhead mentioned. It looks to me like POR-15 has been recommended by everyone who has used it. I even heard its the best gas tank sealer if your tank is rusted on the inside. The Collision Supplier I went to had a person who told me they used to supply POR-15 and he glanced around the store as he said it. I will dig deeper :-D

Check the drying time on POR-15 clear. I just did the inside of my tank and it stays sticky for quite awhile, a good four or five hours. In a paint booth that shouldn't be a problem though. It takes a full 96 hrs to cure. It dries by pulling humidity out of the air unlike conventional paint that releases solvents to dry.

 

[txironhead]

I finally read the instructions on the POR-15 clear, and it can be used on painted surfaces. It can also be used on chrome, aluminum, polished/plated parts, all kinds of stuff. Guaranteed not to yellow, so you guys that go through all the work of polishing your covers might actually be able to clearcoat them!

It also says that it can be applied with a brush or roller, it's formulated to smooth out by itself. I'd still consider thinning it and spraying it. It mentioned that if you do multiple layers there is a tendency for brushstrokes to appear if you don't do it right. I really like the fact that POR-15 puts the instructions and safety data sheets for each product on their website so you can see exactly what you're getting into before you buy the product.

The Dupli-Color engine paint I'm planning on using is enamel, not laquer. I've used it on cars and motorcycles for years. The aluminum paints do leave a matte finish, and it does look surprisingly like freshly bead-blasted aluminum. The color paints leave a gloss finish, more like what you'd use on a car's engine block. That TSCC from another post turned out really nice, btw...

 

[LeeGS550E]

It also says that it can be applied with a brush or roller, it's formulated to smooth out by itself. I'd still consider thinning it and spraying it.

The POR-15 Hardnose paint that I used on my frame also had the same instructions, that you could roll it or brush it on. I found that the brush marks stayed behind though. I think you are right...it would have to be sprayed. In the case of the Hardnose paint, the stuff was so hard I would not want to be in the position of having to wetsand.

 

[rickt]

Just a caution or two

Just a caution or two

I checked out the POR website for the clear product. Please be aware that it contains isocyanates, so the potential health issues that were listed earlier in the thread apply. Also, buying a large quantity, dividing into smaller portions, and shipping may have its own problems. I'm fairly certain that this paint is considered a hazardous material and requires special handling and packaging for shipping. I doubt that it can be shipped by air.

If you prepared to deal with isocyante-based paint and your goal is to paint a tank, side covers, fenders, etc., it would make more sense to use an automotive product line such as PPG, Dupont, BASF, etc. As mentioned in a previous post, it is extremely important to keep all components (primers, basecoat, clearcoat) within the same product line. Mixing and matching will often produce unpleasant results such as lifting and crazing. Most of the automotive clears can be readily wet sanded and polished to a mirror like finish. I am currently polishing the tank, side covers, and tail section of a '78 GS750. I will try to post pics when complete.

I don't believe the POR clear can be handled this way. I'm thinking that it is best suited for engine covers, chrome and aluminum trim.

Just my 2 cents.

rickt

 

[Schweisshund]

I think we should probably post a poll or a vote thread for all GSRers that may want to participate in a group effort to purchase POR-15 clear, and distribute it. I am not able to purchase this stuff at the moment (money budgeted already) but would be able to purchase the amount I need.

Any one brave enough to take the lead on this one? I sure ain't - would be afraid of making a mistake somewhere.

 

[Nessism]

I think we should probably post a poll or a vote thread for all GSRers that may want to participate in a group effort to purchase POR-15 clear, and distribute it. I am not able to purchase this stuff at the moment (money budgeted already) but would be able to purchase the amount I need.

Any one brave enough to take the lead on this one? I sure ain't - would be afraid of making a mistake somewhere.

I'd go in for some of the POR-15 clear but I feel strongly that it is not the right product to use if one wants to paint bodywork (tank, side covers, tail, etc.). Also, the POR-15 website warns against opening the containers in a moisture rich area which leads me to think that this stuff is not going to last long if it's not used. Lastly, there is not a huge upside to doing a group buy on this stuff since POR-15 sells it in pint sized containers for only $31.25. Now if a group buy is set up for some Imron or PPG high solids clear/hardner (which is not sold in anything smaller than a quart) a group buy would make more sense to me.

 

[Schweisshund]

From what this forum has taught me about Imron, and from hearing from those who have used it then I would go for that. Since no one here has experienced using POR-15 for clear coat, that would be like flying blind I guess. It may be a great product for clear, but since there is no one who has used it prior I would feel safer going with Nessism's suggestion .... any suggestions?

 

[txironhead]

I was doing some research on Dupli-Color's website today and went to their FAQ page. Someone had actually posted that they were painting their bike with Dupli-Color and asked about the gas resistance. The reply was that it was recommended to use a two-part clear over the Dupli-Color.

For my bike, I'm going with the Engine Enamel, then buying some pro-grade clear and borrowing my brother's compressor and spray gun.

 

[Nessism]

For my bike, I'm going with the Engine Enamel, then buying some pro-grade clear and borrowing my brother's compressor and spray gun.

I'm not an expert by any measure but engine enamel doesn't strike me as the right stuff for the base coat. Using lacquer, regular Dupli-color paint, seems less risky from a compatibility standpoint. Or why not use that HOC paint from Walmart? Just asking, not criticizing.

 

[Schweisshund]

I DO NOT know from experience, but was told by the guys at NAPA as well as the guys at North Georgia Collision Supply that ANY automotive urethane clear coat is gas resistant.

However, I was told by the guys at Autozone, Advance Auto, O'reilly's (they all know me on a first name basis and want to see this bike when its finished) and an older gentleman who works at Wal-Mart that the automotive clear sold on the shelves in these locations WILL varnish off if gas touches it.

Hmmmmm .... what to do?

I guess the proving grounds need to be set up. I will take a forum member's suggestion to go to a jobber (assuming that means an automotive repair center) and ask them for a small portion of clear and hardener already mixed as I probably only need 5-8 ozs. of this stuff.

 

[txironhead]

I'm not an expert by any measure but engine enamel doesn't strike me as the right stuff for the base coat. Using lacquer, regular Dupli-color paint, seems less risky from a compatibility standpoint. Or why not use that HOC paint from Walmart? Just asking, not criticizing.

Well, for the most part, it's becaust neither the lacqer nor the HoC paint comes in the color I want, and the engine paint does.

I painted my Shadow sheetmetal with Dupli-Color Truck and Van Emerald paint, four coats, wet sanded to 2000 grit, then Dupli-Color Clear (can't remember which clear, unfortunately), five coats, wet sanded, polishing compound, Mother's Scratch and Haze, then pure Carnuba wax. Glistened better than anything that ever came stock on that bike. Rode it over 10k miles that year, it sat outside without even a cover, washed and waxed maybe every two months. I also was not the most careful person putting gas in. When I sold the bike, it still looked like I'd just painted it.

A friend of mine also rattle-canned his bike, but he didn't sand at all between top and clear, didn't sand the clear, and he used $.99 Wal-Mart paint. He never could figure out why his bike didn't look as good as mine. Plus, he painted over the factory paint and pinstriping without even scuffing it up. Started peeling and flaking almost immediately. I'm not sure he even washed the parts prior to painting.

Anyway, I've still got some work to do to the beast before I get around to painting it, maybe by then I can get some better prices on some cheap "pro" paints and talk my brother into painting it. Heck, he may even have some Imron laying around in the color I want, he's got a whole fire cabinet full of the stuff. Apparently that's "the" paint for aircraft. Supposed to be top-shelf stuff, probably outlast the bike.

 

[Schweisshund]

Last year, when I tried to repaint my Honda Nighthawk - I didn't even use primer and couldn't figure out why the paint was blistering One thing learned from that experience, Rustoleum really holds up, you can blow bubbles with that stuff. However, the gas fumes from the tank were permeating through the layer of Rustoleum I sprayed on it causing the bubbles. That is when I went to the library and learned about sheet metal primer, heat resistant paints like Dupli-Color and the like. Yeah, forgot about the gas fumes doing that to the surface paint - only seems to do that when there is no primer though :-D

 

[Schweisshund]

TXIronhead - what color did you choose? By the way - I spilled some paint thinner on the HoK - maybe worth mentioning that it didn't fade anything. That might mean something but I am not sure.

 

[txironhead]

Grabber Green (I can already hear the screaming and gnashing of teeth)

I'm planning on the fender, tail section, side covers, chain guard and tank being green, the rims, lower forks, frame and engine block being black and the engine covers Brushed Aluminum. I've already got the stainless Allen bolts, it's starting to look sweet. I may even add some green highlights here and there.

I'm trying to find some good tribal designs from my tattoo flash to add to the scheme, done in gloss black prior to clearcoating. The bars are a little rusty too, may paint them black as well. I'm replacing the missing headlight assembly with a chrome element-type round Emgo headlight. I'll probably go with black side markers, hugger style or streamlined into the body. I also want to cut my seat down a bit and upholster it with vinyl and neoprene.

 

[Schweisshund]

I like grabber green :-D Please post pics if you can. I agree with you about this thread getting interesting - I think its great that we are bouncing ideas off of each other.

 

[Nessism]

I DO NOT know from experience, but was told by the guys at NAPA as well as the guys at North Georgia Collision Supply that ANY automotive urethane clear coat is gas resistant.

However, I was told by the guys at Autozone, Advance Auto, O'reilly's (they all know me on a first name basis and want to see this bike when its finished) and an older gentleman who works at Wal-Mart that the automotive clear sold on the shelves in these locations WILL varnish off if gas touches it.

Hmmmmm .... what to do?

I guess the proving grounds need to be set up. I will take a forum member's suggestion to go to a jobber (assuming that means an automotive repair center) and ask them for a small portion of clear and hardener already mixed as I probably only need 5-8 ozs. of this stuff.

I've used a few different urethane clears and can say that they are not all the same. PPG for example sells at least a half dozen different varities, all with different characteristics.

From my experience the best stuff is the high solids, slower drying stuff. Slow dry is a relative term though since it sets up tack-free pretty fast - less than one hour. As far as purchasing from some jobber pre mixed, depending on what kind of clear you are using this might not be a good idea. I have some Nason clear that only has a 2 hour pot life so something like that will not work.

FYI, HOC Kosmic urethane clear is available on-line for somewhat reasonable prices. One quart clear, hardner, reducer is $72 shipped. Not too bad for a high quality clear. http://www.autobodysupply.net/store...=433&usg=74CF935E-BD74-4CBD-8FA4-4286B9AEC9E2