Dead Starter Motor?

[sam000lee]

Bike has been starting up very easily all season. I went to start it up a few days ago and can hear the solenoid click but the engine doesn't turn over. After some fidgeting, including putting the bike into gear and rolling it around with the clutch in, I got it to start up. That only worked once and now the bike won't start at all.

I have new plugs, good spark, battery is charged. I checked and cleaned the connections between the battery, the solenoid and the starter. It 'feels' as if the battery were low and didn't have enough juice to turn the starter.

Does this sound like a dead starter? I've heard of people rebuilding these, what does this entail?

Thanks in advance.

 

[tom203]

"It 'feels' as if the battery were low and didn't have enough juice to turn the starter."

maybe it is, trying using.Jumper cables from NON running car and see if starter motor spins faster with this boost. Batteries can fool you and appear charged. How old is yours?

 

[sam000lee]

Battery is 2 years old, so not new and is a veteran of some charging issues so could be the culprit. I'll give that a try, thanks.

 

[posplayr]

If you note the steady state battery voltage change between bike off and key on you will get a good indication of battery health.

See first two steps of Quick test.

Load assumed is standard with lights and ignition but bike not running (about 10 amps).

 

[sam000lee]

The battery voltage with ignition on but no lights was around 12.5V which should be good. I tried jump starting it from the car battery but to no avail. What are the steps for diagnosing the starter motor? If that is indeed the culprit is it better to rebuild or just buy new? I saw that Rick's makes one for $150 which seems pricey.

I wish this bike had a kick start....

 

[Steve]

Get a rebuild kit at Stockers Starters. About $30.

.

 

[tom203]

This starter motor p/n 31100-44110 pretty common on ebay -used on gs300 and gs650 shafties also. Removing one from crankcase is painful, so brace yourself! Might be just worn out brushes, but can't tell till you open it up. I believe Ricks actually sells rebuilt units.

 

[sam000lee]

Cool I ordered the rebuild kit. Looks like the cam chain adjuster and airbox might be in the way ... any thing else to watch out for?

 

[Steve]

To get the cam chain adjuster out of the way, you might have to remove the carbs.

It's been a while since I have worked on a 450, I don't really remember.

.

 

[sam000lee]

I didn't have to take the carbs off to remove the cam chain adjuster, so getting the thing out was a lot less painful than I anticipated. Just waiting for my rebuild kit now.

 

[sam000lee]

So I rebuilt my starter motor which is now working fine, but think I may have messed something up putting the cam chain adjuster. The bike won't start up with the choke, which is normally how I cold start it, but will start and idle if I am giving it extra throttle. However, the bike dies quickly if I let go at all, and the cylinders are getting hot very quickly.

I'm worried there is extra friction somewhere and that I'm going to seize the engine if I force the bike to keep running by setting the idle screw higher to keep it running.

Could this be the result of improper tension on the cam chain?

I bump started the bike a couple days ago before I took the starter motor out and everything was running A-okay.

 

[tom203]

Did you reinstall and reset camchain tensioner correctly?? If not chain could have skipped on sprockets- bad news, so find out before any more engine running

http://members.dslextreme.com/users/storagecliff/images/engine_odds-n-ends.html#A06

 

[sam000lee]

Yup, I tightend the lock screw when I took it out. To put it back in I loosened the lockscrew, depressed the pushrod all the way, tightened the lockscrew, installed the assembly back into the cylinder, unscrewed the lockscrew (felt the pushrod go out little), tighened it, backed it out 1/2 turn and then tightened the locknut.

I was thinking this could perhaps be that the starter clutch isn't disengaging, and causing an extra load on the engine/pistons. Is it possible that part of the starter clutch could have come loose during removal/installation of the starter motor? I opened the left case up and everything looked in order but there's a bunch of stuff behind the stator rotor that is part of the starter clutch I didn't look at.

How do I go about diagnosing whether it skipped the sprocket?

 

[tom203]

Sounds like you got tensioner back in correctly so it can work. When it was out, no one cranked engine engine over by mistake, ? So it should be same as it was.
Starter clutch is likely not stuck on -if it was ,it would destroy itself. Since it was running OK before, you must have disturbed something pulling the tensioner out or fiddling with starter motor- maybe carb linkage, etc.. Replacing the starter motor won't effect the starter clutch drive since they are seperated by that intermediate gear.

 

[sam000lee]

Nope, the bike sat totally still and undisturbed. I havn't had a chance to look for about a week but was thinking that maybe the timing got upset when I took out and reinstalled the timing chain adjuster. I had noticed dripping coming out of the exhaust when I ran it. At the time I didn't think anything of it since sometimes that happens when I use the choke, but now I am thinking that maybe it could be unused gas due to the timing being a little off.

Any justification or debunking of this theory? The manual says that the timing is "pre-set" and so there is no way or need to adjust it.

Thanks for all the help so far!

 

[sam000lee]

Tom203 you were right. What I followed according to the Cam Chain Tensioner Removal instructions: "Before installing the tensioner, completely compress the spring-loaded plunger and secure it with lockscrew"

However, from the Installation and Timing of the crankshaft section: " Push in on the spring-loaded plunger while rotating the large knurled nut counterclockwise (Figure 31). When the plunger is pushed in as far as possible, secure it with the lockscrew."

I followed the first direction when installing it, and didn't also back out the spring-loaded knurled nut when pushing in the pushrod. So the cam chain had extra tension causing the extra load.

I ran the engine for probably about 2 minutes with the adjuster in improperly. I'm wandering what kind of damage I could have done during that time. The bike starts up and runs normally now, but there's a whirring noise that I never noticed before that is making me a little anxious...

 

[tom203]

Just wind knob back, retract plunger shaft, lock in position, then reintall tensioner and release plunger lockscrew - as long as it feeds out And doesn't push back, life should be good with low anxiety. Maybe the rear chain guide was slighty disturbed, but this seems farfetched.

 

[sam000lee]

Could anybody tell me how hot their adjuster gets after a ride? Mines getting pretty hot and I don't have a reference point to compare to. Thinking it's just heat coming off the cylinder but am paranoid there's something moving around in there (knob is stationary and seems to be working just fine).

 

[tom203]

Paranoid? These suckers run hot! Why not take camcover off (and msybe fuel tank for visibility) and see if you can inspect the rear chain guide- maybe it got knocked out of alignment

 

[sam000lee]

I had to take the rear camshaft out to get a good look and everything seems to be okay - for a moment I thought that the gasket between the cylinder/head was some kind of gouge in the wall there which was a bit of a scare!
Everythings back together now though and running well. Thanks Tom203 for all your help!