Deciphering the code on my ignition switch!

[oblique]

The only key I have for '80 750L is cheap and soft 'Curtis' recut and its starting to show its age. I want to cut a fresh, factory correct key from the codes everyone talks about and I have a blank NOS Suzuki key that I found on eBay.

I took the ignition off (I figured this is the most important source for a code out of all the locks on the bike) and found a punched code that doesnt match any of the '3-digit' codes everyone talks about. It looks exactly like this:

Ɵ98119-0

That little Theta symbol is about half the size of the characters that make up code itself.

I took spare key I have, the new key and the code to a locksmith and he said the numbers did not match the rises & falls on my old key (he also did not find any such code on his computer) and offered to blueprint a key for me by disassembling the lock cylinder for $60 labour +cutting costs = $75 w/ tax.

Do I have a 'special' lock cylinder or something?

 

[tkent02]

Did you try the key guy on eBay,? Did you ask if the three digit code looked right for your key?

 

[Guest]

Check the helmet lock, look closely near the entry slot & there may be a very faint number stamped there...

 

[oblique]

Did you try the key guy on eBay,? Did you ask if the three digit code looked right for your key?

I bought the key from a general seller, not a guy who specialized in cutting them.

Check the helmet lock, look closely near the entry slot & there may be a very faint number stamped there...

I was under the impression the seat lock and helmet locks are not as deep as the ignition ie. the ignition switch uses more teeth to actuate.

 

[GSX1000E]

Remove your seat lock and look underneath it. Your three digit code is there.

 

[Steve]

I was under the impression the seat lock and helmet locks are not as deep as the ignition ie. the ignition switch uses more teeth to actuate.

The lock may, indeed, be different, but it will still have the same number.

.

 

[oblique]

Remove your seat lock and look underneath it. Your three digit code is there.

If I may inquire, how do you cut a key with more than 3 profile changes along its length from a 3 digit code?

 

[posplayr]

If I may inquire, how do you cut a key with more than 3 profile changes along its length from a 3 digit code?

A unique one to one mapping from R3 to RN. Elementary coding theory. Even heard of spread spectrum communications? R1 (binary) is mapped into pseudo random sequences which can be RN where N is very large and non repeating. It could be as easy as 0 = dogbert, 1=mona lisa; both dogbert and monalisa live in an infinite dimensional space, but can be differentiated with a single bit.


If you find the right person, they just look up the profile from the code. I know I have done it and have a locksmith in SB CA if you cant find another.

 

[rustybronco]

I think the number of permutations of a 5 depth by 5 position cylinder would by 250. If that is the case I guess they wold start with a number, 150 for instance, then add the number of combinations (somewhat less that 250 as we wouldn't want all ones on a key) chosen to that number and come up with the ending number

 

[posplayr]

I think the number of permutations of a 5 depth by 5 position cylinder would by 250. If that is the case I guess they wold start with a number, 150 for instance, then add the number of combinations (somewhat less that 250 as we wouldn't want all ones on a key) chosen to that number and come up with the ending number

If I had 4 bit of either 0 or 1, that is 2^4 =16
If I had 5 positions of depth 5 that would be 5^5 combinations
5 raised to the 5th power is 3125 combinations

There is an exact formula for permutations, but an inductive demonstration is hopefully more appropriate.

 

[rustybronco]

That's why I said think.

 

[chuck hahn]

The 3 digit code when looked up tells what the 5 notches are set at for the machine to recut a key.

 

[chuck hahn]

Did you look at the key itself for anything stamped on it?? Got the owners manual..sometimes a previous owner might write it inside a cover??? Why cant the locksmith cut one from the one you have thats working??

 

[oblique]

I will check the the other locks for codes. The key I have works but its worn...I want a fresh cut on a better key for longevity.

 

[JTGS850GL]

A unique one to one mapping from R3 to RN. Elementary coding theory. Even heard of spread spectrum communications? R1 (binary) is mapped into pseudo random sequences which can be RN where N is very large and non repeating. It could be as easy as 0 = dogbert, 1=mona lisa; both dogbert and monalisa live in an infinite dimensional space, but can be differentiated with a single bit.

Just curious if you ever worked with Jacobs? I trained at Qualcomm when OKI Telecom first developed a CDMA chipset. Very interesting guy.

 

[Kiwi Canuck]

Suzuki Key Codes

Suzuki Key Codes

The only key I have for '80 750L is cheap and soft 'Curtis' recut and its starting to show its age. I want to cut a fresh, factory correct key from the codes everyone talks about and I have a blank NOS Suzuki key that I found on eBay.

I took the ignition off (I figured this is the most important source for a code out of all the locks on the bike) and found a punched code that doesnt match any of the '3-digit' codes everyone talks about. It looks exactly like this:

Ɵ98119-0

That little Theta symbol is about half the size of the characters that make up code itself.

I took spare key I have, the new key and the code to a locksmith and he said the numbers did not match the rises & falls on my old key (he also did not find any such code on his computer) and offered to blueprint a key for me by disassembling the lock cylinder for $60 labour +cutting costs = $75 w/ tax.

Do I have a 'special' lock cylinder or something?

******
That is not a key code for that bike.
Does your Curtis key work all the locks?, if so a good locksmith should be able to make one to code if you take the bike his shop, and without disassembling the locks.
Make sure he uses a cheap blank to test his cuts before he cuts it onto your nice new blank.

There are 4 depths and 5 spaces, and they use less than 1000 key codes otherwise it would be a 4 digit code number.

For example,
key code 450 = 21231 (a 1 cut is the full height of the blank)
key code 350 = 21132
key code 190 = 13423

I can post the depth and spaces if anyone is interested.

PS If you take a good picture and post it I can read it and give you the cuts.

Cheers,

 

[posplayr]

Just curious if you ever worked with Jacobs? I trained at Qualcomm when OKI Telecom first developed a CDMA chipset. Very interesting guy.

Jacobs Electronics? No never but have been studying his book and patents.

I have only worked what would be either DoD defense or pseudo commercial (foreign)defense. The SSPB is the first commercial thing I have ever built.

 

[JTGS850GL]

Jacobs Electronics? No never but have been studying his book and patents.

I have only worked what would be either DoD defense or pseudo commercial (foreign)defense. The SSPB is the first commercial thing I have ever built.

No, not Jacobs Electronics. I was referring to Dr. Irwin Jacobs. One of the founders of Qualcomm Inc. He developed the cellular standard (CDMA) that used spread spectrum transmission (1.23 MHz bandwidth) and a Code Domain Multiple Access modulation schema along with other "wizardry" including orthonginal encoding and a rake receiver to take advantage of multipath interference. Really a brilliant guy but a bit spooky sometimes.

Many of the terms you've used in other conversations are common in the CDMA world. Makes sense since CDMA was developed around the same concepts as covert communications (Low-Probability-of-Intercept) in military radar transmissions. Jacobs just utilized some of spread spectrum's ability to dig down into the noise floor to assist in signal recovery and additional range using minimum power. Kind of like a room full of people whispering at the same level (Noise). Overlay the code for a single user, you get 20db of additional processing power and BINGO, the single voice pops up above the crowd.

Sorry for the distraction... Just curious.

 

[oblique]

******
That is not a key code for that bike.
Does your Curtis key work all the locks?, if so a good locksmith should be able to make one to code if you take the bike his shop, and without disassembling the locks.
Make sure he uses a cheap blank to test his cuts before he cuts it onto your nice new blank.

There are 4 depths and 5 spaces, and they use less than 1000 key codes otherwise it would be a 4 digit code number.

For example,
key code 450 = 21231 (a 1 cut is the full height of the blank)
key code 350 = 21132
key code 190 = 13423

I can post the depth and spaces if anyone is interested.

PS If you take a good picture and post it I can read it and give you the cuts.

Cheers,

I have had luck getting a key cut from the helmet lock that works in the ignition. Out of curiosity, can you guys decipher the key code form the key?

(This is the old key and its slightly worn. Its hard to see but there are 2 identical small rises at the tip, side by side.

 

[posplayr]

No have not worked with that Jacobs either.

As I mentioned it is only :

Elementary coding theory.

I'm sure Dr. Jacobs is much more familiar with advanced signal processing than I am. I understand a lot about Signal Processing but my main strengths are in control systems.

Coding theory and Spread spectrum are intimately related but two different sides of the same coin. Coding theory has to do with maximizing the information transferred in a given bandwidth(subject to signal to noise ratio limits). Spread spectrum has to do with spreading a signal out (prior to transmission) as wide as possible to reduce jamming potential, but then despreading on receipt to recover the original signal, now much more immune to interference(i.e. maximizing signal to noise ratio). If you spread the signal out enough it falls below the received noise levels and becomes LPI.

A GPS signal is extremely low signal level, it is spread spectrum and effectively LPI. Unfortunately it is so low that it is not difficult to upset and therefore needs other AntiJam characteristics(like more spread spectrum to get more processing gain).