Did my valves myself-my impressions

[zblip2]

I'm no mechanic but I bit the bullet and did my valves myself. I bought the valve compression tool (the curvy end one) and proceeeded to do my valves.
To anyone planning to do the same, here are my impressions.

-the tool sold on Ebay (curvy end one) doesn't work very well. It was constantly slipping out of place and getting caught. I had to pull hard to wedge it out of there.

-Shims are hard to find and expensive. 8$ in exchange of the old one and 16$ w/o exchange.

-Usually shims have there thickness written on the back side. Buts some shims have there number erased. In that case, you have to own a thicknes mesuring tool which I don't. If you only have one shim with the erased number you can allways take it off and bring it to the shop where you buy the shims. They will mesure it. But if you have more then one blank shim, you're f"cked cause you have to have all the shims in place in order to rotate the cams, and you have to rotate them each time you remove a shim... I suggest then that you keep an extra shim hidden somewhere fore cases when you have to deal with this type of situation. It will save you a trip to the dealer.

-Watch out for non fitting gaskets. I bought my replacement gasket through ebay. It was sold as a gs850 NOS gaset. It wasnt a good match, the screw holes didn't aling and I had to go buy another one full price at the dealer.

-It takes time. Plan half a day at least. If you're slow like me plan a full, day cause: The dealer is at the other end of the city, I double (thiple check) check everything cause gaskets are expensie so once you put the lid on the motor you better be sure you did it right.

The good part: If you pay a mechanic to do this job, there is no way of knowing if he did the job well (or at all) cause first, cams are hidden, and second, if you burn a valve it would be impossible to blame it on the guy who adjusted your valves even if it was done the week before. That meens that youre valves rely solely on the mechanics goot will wich finally isn't a comforting thought... For example, I had my valve done last year at the shop, and 6k miles later I found that three of the eight valves on my bike had a clearance of zero. Not good. Should I be suspicious?

Final thought, If you have the money, find a trustable mechanic. But for best results, do it yourself. I admit it's a bit of a pain. but at least, you know the job is perfect.

Ride safely.

 

[SqDancerLynn1]

First off congrats on doing the adjustment. Things must be different in Montreal. We can usually find shims for $6 or Join the GS valve shim club. Their is a trick to using the tool. Have you tried the zip tye methoud instead of the tool ?

 

[Guest]

First off congrats on doing the adjustment. Things must be different in Montreal. We can usually find shims for $6 or Join the GS valve shim club. Their is a trick to using the tool. Have you tried the zip tye methoud instead of the tool ?

My local stealership still swaps them for free! :dancing:

 

[Steve]

OK, lots of stuff here, so I will just cut-and-paste, instead of doing the quote thing:
(note: you can click on the red links)

I'm no mechanic but I bit the bullet and did my valves myself. I bought the valve compression tool (the curvy end one) and proceeeded to do my valves.
To anyone planning to do the same, here are my impressions.
Congratulations.

-the tool sold on Ebay (curvy end one) doesn't work very well. It was constantly slipping out of place and getting caught. I had to pull hard to wedge it out of there.
I have found that the similar Suzuki tool is also rather difficult to use. If you had looked on BassCliff's site, you would have seen his tutorial on valve adjustment and the accompanying zip-tie method supplement, I highly recommend using the zip-tie method.

-Shims are hard to find and expensive. 8$ in exchange of the old one and 16$ w/o exchange.
It appears that you checked with your dealer to get those prices. Yeah, the 'no exchange' price is a bit high, most here in the US are about $12, but that might just be the exchange rate, too. Some dealers will exchange for a bit less money, others will exchange for free. Have you tried another dealer? In the event that you want to add to your collection, you can get new shims from Z1 Enterprises. Not sure what the shipping would be to you, but the shims are $5.28 each. NOTE: if you do buy shims, be sure to specify 29.5mm diameter shims for Suzuki. Yamaha and Kawasaki shims are 29.0mm diameter and that 0.5 difference is hard to see, but critical.

-Usually shims have there thickness written on the back side. Buts some shims have there number erased. In that case, you have to own a thicknes mesuring tool which I don't. If you only have one shim with the erased number you can allways take it off and bring it to the shop where you buy the shims. They will mesure it. But if you have more then one blank shim, you're f"cked cause you have to have all the shims in place in order to rotate the cams, and you have to rotate them each time you remove a shim... I suggest then that you keep an extra shim hidden somewhere fore cases when you have to deal with this type of situation. It will save you a trip to the dealer.
It also helps to have a few shims anyway, to be ready for the next adjustment. Some of us also have one that is considerably smaller than what is normally used. When we get a 'new' bike and find the valves really tight, there is no way of knowing what shim it needs, so we put one in that is several sizes too small, then measure all the extra clearance and deduct the multiple incrrements of shim sizes. Do you have a store like Harbor Freight up there? You can get a decent digital caliper for less than $20 usually. It's not just needed for measuring valve shims, it's also good for setting float heights in the carbs.

-Watch out for non fitting gaskets. I bought my replacement gasket through ebay. It was sold as a gs850 NOS gaset. It wasnt a good match, the screw holes didn't aling and I had to go buy another one full price at the dealer.
There were two different gaskets that I know of for the 850. The '79 to early '82 had a 16-bolt pattern, the mid-'82 to whenever they stopped making them had a 19-bolt pattern. There is also a left-right relationship to watch for. There is a dowel that is in the front left corner and the right rear corner and the gasket is a bit larger to compensate for that dowel. If you have the gasket flipped, it won't fit quite right.

-It takes time. Plan half a day at least. If you're slow like me plan a full, day cause: The dealer is at the other end of the city, I double (thiple check) check everything cause gaskets are expensie so once you put the lid on the motor you better be sure you did it right.
Yes, it takes some time the first time. After doing it a few times, if you have all the parts you need on hand and have a selection of shims, you can do it in less than an hour. If you want a handy tool to help you keep track of this, look at the last line of my signature.

The good part: If you pay a mechanic to do this job, there is no way of knowing if he did the job well (or at all) cause first, cams are hidden, and second, if you burn a valve it would be impossible to blame it on the guy who adjusted your valves even if it was done the week before. That meens that youre valves rely solely on the mechanics goot will wich finally isn't a comforting thought... For example, I had my valve done last year at the shop, and 6k miles later I found that three of the eight valves on my bike had a clearance of zero. Not good. Should I be suspicious?
Should you be suspicious? Not in the least. The recommended adjustment interval is between 3,000 and 4,000 miles, depending on which manual you read. In these engines, the clearances tend to decrease and they aren't very big to start with, so it may appear to be zero by the next adjustment.

Final thought, If you have the money, find a trustable mechanic. But for best results, do it yourself. I admit it's a bit of a pain. but at least, you know the job is perfect.
Not only that, but in many places, you will be very lucky to find a mechanic that will work on any bike that is older than ten years. Seems there is too much chance of bolts breaking and other things that will just beat the heck out of the flat-rate manual, so they don't even want you darkening their doorstep.
Ride safely.

 

[zblip2]

Wow! never heard about the zip-tie method supplement!

Thanks a million for the super great info. Although I feel I'll never be able to do my valves in less than an hour, if I can achieve it in less than six it will be an improvement:dancing:

 

[Steve]

I see that you have been around a while, so you are not that much of a newbie, but have you checked out BassCliff's site lately?

LOTS of good information there that he has gathered. Bookmark it and use it often.

.

 

[Nessism]

Honestly, adjusting the valves using shims is dead easy as long as you have a stock of shims and the F'ing gasket is not stuck down. I'd say that one hour is MAX time for me.

 

[lurch12_2000]

Couple more thoughts:

1. Make sure and put the size stamped on the shim face down so the cam lobe doesn't erase it away by the next valve adjustment. I venture a guess that this is why some shim's sizes magically disappear. I keep 2 spare shims on hand for the measuring phase before ordering or swapping for new ones.

2. SECOND the zip tie method...the job goes easy and smooth, but use a good, thicker style zip tie, not a cheap thin one that may break apart.

3. My local dealer has swapped shims for free, but usually doesn't have the sizes I need, so join the forum's shim swap club and work out the exchange/costs with them....or find a nice forum buddy willing to swap for what they need. Either way, allow 3-5 days for swap and delivery.

4. Usually the first time in there you will lose an hour or more cleaning off the old, brittle, stuck gasket. I use a straight edge razor blade and a putty knife, but be careful you don't gouge the alum mating surfaces! Then use a shop vac to suck out any old fragments that might have fallen into the head area and into the oil puddles aroung the valve springs. I also plan an oil change around the valve adjustment to be sure I drain any small crud off and a filter change that traps this stuff right after running the bike to test.

5. Some heads do not have the alignment dowels, but you can easily tell by the screw hole alignment if you have the gasket upside down.

 

[BassCliff]

Hi,

It takes a little practice to perfect the art of using the tappet tool. I've never used a zip tie. You have to maintain pressure toward the cam as you push down on the bucket. My tool rarely slips off the bucket any more. Just make sure it's positioned properly and you push toward the cam, keeping the tool tight against the cam, as you push the bucket down. Take it slow. Putting a little oil on your tappet depressor will help too.

If not, the zip tie method works too.


Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

 

[jeff.saunders]

The sizes printed on the shims can vary a little from actual. A 2.45mm shim may read from as little as 2.44 for a worn shim to as much as 2.46 or 2.47 for a new shim.

I use a micrometer to measure all the shims and write on the actual size before I stash them in my shim box in the garage.

I like to have a mix of new and used shims to give a little more range in the adjustment.

Once you get used to the shim tool, it's not too bad. Changing shims is a fairly quick proposition on the GS.

Keep track of the clearances and shims in each bucket. That way you'll know the shims you will need next.

 

[Steve]

Keep track of the clearances and shims in each bucket. That way you'll know the shims you will need next.

An easy way to do that is to get a copy of my Excel spreadsheet. Details in the last line of my sig.

 

[Piston720]

You mention that a shim check could be done in about an hour.
I have a 79 850 which I have done a few times recently and I have to remove the carbs and air box in order to lift the cam cover off to clear the internal chain tensioner. What am I doing wrong?

 

[Wallowgreen]

You mention that a shim check could be done in about an hour.
I have a 79 850 which I have done a few times recently and I have to remove the carbs and air box in order to lift the cam cover off to clear the internal chain tensioner. What am I doing wrong?

I have a '79 850 and am able to get the cover off by sufficient jiggling and encouragement. It can be done you just have to find the right orientation to do it. Be careful you don't tear the gasket putting it back on though that's very easy to do.

 

[Steve]

I don't know how the '79 850 might be any different than the '81 and '82 that I have here, but I remove the horns (if they are under the tank, pointing down), remove the breather cover off the center of the valve cover, then remove the valve cover. Yeah, it's a tight fit, and it helps if the gasket stays with the engine, not the cover. Makes the cover just that much thinner and you won't damage it by sliding it out over the valves.

.

 

[Dogma]

When I was doing all that fooling around with my head a couple months ago, I discovered that the cam cover can be slid back to where the carbs would be, even with the breather cover on. If the carbs are on, you have to take the breather cover and horns out first, and slide the cam cover out the side. Even then you have to wrestle it a bit, it the wiring harness hangs down at all. Only takes a few minutes after the first few times.

Maybe the '79 carbs allow you to slide the cover back a bit?

 

[Piston720]

Thanks, I will definitely give it a more determined try next time.
Don't the 2 throttle cables and choke cable get in the way when trying to move the cover towards the rear?

 

[mighty13d]

I did my adjustment while the engine was out of the bike... What space issues pulling off the valve cover? lol sorry, couldn't resist. It does come out fairly easily while the engine is in the bike though if you wiggle it. Just take your time and look things over.