• Required reading for all forum users!!!

    Welcome!
    Register to access the full functionality of the GSResources forum. Until you register and activate your account you will not have full forum access, nor will you be able to post or reply to messages.

    A note to new registrants...
    All new forum registrations must be activated via email before you have full access to the forum.

    A Special Note about Email accounts!
    DO NOT SIGN UP USING hotmail, outlook, gmx, sbcglobal, att, bellsouth or email.com. They delete our forum signup emails.

    A note to old forum members...
    I receive numerous requests from people who can no longer log in because their accounts were deleted. As mentioned in the forum FAQ, user accounts are deleted if you haven't logged in for the past 6 months. If you can't log in, then create a new forum account. If you don't get an error message, then check your email account for an activation message. If you get a message stating that the email address is already in use, then your account still exists so follow the instructions in the forum FAQ for resetting your password.

    Have you forgotten your password or have a new email address? Then read the forum FAQ for details on how to reset it.

    Any email requests for "can't log in anymore" problems or "lost my password" problems will be deleted. Read the forum FAQ and follow the instructions there - that's what we have one for...

  • Returning Visitors

    If you are a returning visitor who never received your confirmation email, then odds are your email provider is blockinig emails from our server. The only thing that can be done to get around this is you will have to try creating another forum account using an email address from another domain.

    If you are a returning visitor to the forum and can't log in using your old forum name and password but used to be able to then chances are your account is deleted. Purges of the databases are done regularly. You will have to create a new forum account and you should be all set.

Does this NOS starter clutch look new?

KEITH KRAUSE said:
Hey Ian, thanks for that!:) I understand now.
My "NOS" clutch also came with the driven gear assy'.
To update anyone interested, it appears the driven gear was NOS but the starter clutch is used/damaged. The new gear contributed to my confusion when I first examined it. He did list it as a complete NOS starter clutch assy'.
I'm sending it back tomorrow after he finally answered my e-mails. Maybe he was busy?
When I first told him the NOS unit was used, he said to return it for exchange. I reminded him that he told me before that all 5 "NOS" clutches he has looked like the one sent to me, so I only want to exchange if they really are brand new.
He now says that 3 of those 5 are in a factory sealed bag and there's no doubt they're new and I'll get one of those. I hope so.
The thing is, after winning the clutch and knowing he had more, I told him I didn't want the one in the picture and would he please send another.
He didn't answer and when it arrived I could tell from close ups that it was the same "marked up" clutch in his pic that I had questioned being new.
All he had to do was grant my request. Instead, all this messaging/screwing around/returning. He's been selling a long time. How do they manage to make a simple transaction such a PITA?
Just out of curiosity I'll ask you guys; if the replacement is new and alls well that ends well, would you give him a negative feedback, neutral, or positive? I've never given anyone anything but positive and don't want to be on this guys sh-list because he'll probably be selling something else I'll want in the future.
Click to expand...

I've dealt with Paul Miller...oh, so many many times. He's always been fantastic, but sometimes he is definitely a little disorganized. I'm sure that the hassles you're having are caused by honest confusion or lack of organisation. I've had various issues on occasion, and he's always done his best to take care of them. In my case, he has earned the benefit of the doubt.
 
Commodus said:
I've dealt with Paul Miller...oh, so many many times. He's always been fantastic, but sometimes he is definitely a little disorganized. I'm sure that the hassles you're having are caused by honest confusion or lack of organisation. I've had various issues on occasion, and he's always done his best to take care of them. In my case, he has earned the benefit of the doubt.
Click to expand...
Yeah. I couldn't believe it when I saw the "NOS" part he'd sent me. I've always had good luck with him.
I'm thinking it will turn out OK but if he'd just read his messages and communicate a little better...
 
Mike McNaney said:
A third thought. The reason over running clutches come apart, springs break, etc. is from over revving (the springs are tensioned for the intended rpm range they will see) and also from quick changes in rpm up or down. Thats why real drag bikes dont have starters.
Click to expand...

Mike, I disagree with this statement. Contrary to what the author of the Honda article says, the rollers are completely dis-engaged from the clutch gear when the engine is running, be it at 1000 or 13000rpm. In fact, the higher the rpm, the less likely they are to make contact.
If you look closely at the starter clutch, you will notice that the slots in the housing where the rollers sit are slightly tappered which allows the rollers to force back into the wider area and move out of contact from the clutch gear ring. This happens when centrifugal force is generated by crankshaft rotation. The higher the revs, the greater the force on the rollers at the end of the slot. The rollers force against the plungers/brushes which in turn compress the springs. The sole purpose of the springs and plungers is to return the rollers into the narrow part of the slot and make square contact with the clutch gear, for the next start up.
The springs are realitively light and do break. This causes uneven pressure on the drive surface and a noisy chatter with each start up, until wear eventually causes complete failure.
It is vital that the starter clutch mount surface and the mating surface on the stator assy are true to the clutch drive ring. I believe that some failures are due to misalignment here.
The reason many drag racers don't use starters is two fold. Firstly, they can save some weight by removing the starter, associated idler assys and the starter clutch assy. Weight saved equals faster times. Also, seriously elevated compression ratios often mean that stock starters wont do the job. In this case push starts or remote electric starters are used.
 
Since he is trying to do right by you AND since you've had positive past experience with him (as have others you know) I would lean toward a "positive" rating IF the replacement comes back perfect. Otherwise, I'd go "neutral," especially considering you might do business with him again someday ... why sour a basically good seller/buyer relationship?

Regards,
 
Hi 49er, I know all about it actually. I didnt list all the reasons dragbikes dont have a starter. weight is of course one of them. There are rotational and gyroscopic forces as well as metalurgy considerations in a one way clutch. The springs are the softest then rollers then case
Dump it into 2nd at 100mph and your starter clutch is gone. The rollers will crush the springs. guaranteed.
Other stuff too most likely. Its not nesessarily the rpm that is the cause its the jolt and sudden change that does it.

This is why transmission blankets are a requirement in NHRA at faster levels. Because the over running clutches can jamb and lock the trans making it explode if you lose load under full power. (broken driveshaft, etc.)

I recently had mine out and was looking at it and thinking how it looked just like an auto trans jobby just smaller.
 
Last edited:
Hey you guys. I'd appreciate some more help please.
I finally received the replacement starter clutch. Here again is the first one sent that was obviously used, not NOS as advertised. The Suzuki p/n with it said 12600-49810. This is for a '79 GS1000E.

IMG_1793.jpg


Below is the replacement, obviously NOS. Now I'm confused because the two parts look identical EXCEPT towards the outer edge. I don't know the correct terminology of the part but the first pic shows a medium gray material approx' 5/16" wide. It then tapers/drops down to meet the very outer part of the clutch.
The new part instead has this copper material. As you can see it's raised about the same height as the first one but the raised area is only approx' 1/8 wide. The p/n on this parts bag said 12600-498??. The last two digits are torn and mostly missing. I can see just a bit of each. My best guess is they are 24 or possibly 21.
Now I don't know what is the right clutch. I can't go by memory and I don't want to take the bike apart at this time because the clutch is still OK. I can't even say that EITHER part/part number has to be right after all the screwing around I've went through with this guy.
So, do any of you know the correct part number and can you tell me which pic is the correct part, or, is it possible that the clutch has just gone through some small design changes and both would be correct?
It seems to me the second one sent to me will work but I really need one of you to ID these and tell me what I've got and if I can use the new one.
The last pic shows close up the difference from the first pic.
Thanks a lot!

IMG_1856.jpg



IMG_1857.jpg
 
Last edited:
Hi Keith

That starter clutch assy looks ok. It looks like Suzuki have modified the clutch assy on the perifory of the rollers on the later models. As you say, the material has changed to copper, possibly to counter expansion problems. I have'nt had mine apart yet, but the pics look identical to the obscure photo in my 850 Clymer Manual. The drawing in the 1000 Haynes Manual also seems to confer.
You obviously don't have the springs and plungers fitted behind the rollers in your new starter clutch pic.
Cheers
Ian
 
49er said:
Hi Keith

That starter clutch assy looks ok. It looks like Suzuki have modified the clutch assy on the perifory of the rollers on the later models. As you say, the material has changed to copper, possibly to counter expansion problems. I have'nt had mine apart yet, but the pics look identical to the obscure photo in my 850 Clymer Manual. The drawing in the 1000 Haynes Manual also seems to confer.
You obviously don't have the springs and plungers fitted behind the rollers in your new starter clutch pic.
Cheers
Ian
Click to expand...
Thanks for the reply Ian.
Right, I didn't have the springs or pins in there for the pic. Can you believe that this one also came with damaged springs? I called Suzuki and they still sell them for just $1/ea. I'd just buy a new set but now I'm worried about the difference I mentioned above. I don't know if the part has just made that change and the operation/installation is uneffected? Heck, I don't even know for sure if either of them is right. Those part numbers are different too, which worries me.
I bought this clutch as insurance for later. Last I looked, a genuine Suzuki part was over $250, so I hope I still get a deal out of this. I don't really need to change it now but I do have to find out if it will work on my bike or just demand a refund.
So I'm hoping someone will chime in and give me a definite answer.
 
The thing I'd check is that the rotor (generator assy) can still bolt flush to the starter clutch with the 3 bolts. If it does then your're good to go. The only problem is to find out, means you got to pull your rotor off.

I know on my 1100 cranks I do too have that same ridge and it cause no problems. But since i think you said your bike is a 1000 I don't know if the rotor is the same, bigger or smaller.

Also try here cause they are pretty good with updated oem part numbers at the bottom of the page
http://www.alpha-sports.com/suzuki_parts.htm
 
Last edited:
RacingJake said:
The thing I'd check is that the rotor (generator assy) can still bolt flush to the starter clutch with the 3 bolts. If it does then your're good to go. The only problem is to find out, means you got to pull your rotor off.

I know on my 1100 cranks I do too have that same ridge and it cause no problems. But since i think you said your bike is a 1000 I don't know if the rotor is the same, bigger or smaller.

Also try here cause they are pretty good with updated oem part numbers at the bottom of the page
http://www.alpha-sports.com/suzuki_parts.htm
Click to expand...

Jake
Have you had any starter clutch failures while drag racing? I suspect that excessive lightening of the rotor assembly would create a weakness causing the starter clutch to oscillate and run out of true with the drive collar under high rpms. If the rotor worked loose..... bang.
Keith
As Jake pointed out, you need to visually inspect your set up. Do you want to disturb your baby just for this? If the price was right, I would store your spare away until/if ever you need it. Do these engines have a history of starter clutch problems, apart from when they are seriously modified?
 
That's my problem Ian, this new clutch only cost me about $60 but I can't just store it away for the day I need it unless I know it's right. The Ebay seller sure won't give me money back maybe 3 years down the road. I can't make myself tear the bike apart now because it's not a real problem right now, it just slips once in awhile. Thanks very much for the replies and any more you guys can make.
 
KEITH KRAUSE said:
Do the part numbers I mentioned before look familiar to anyone?
Click to expand...

According to AlphaSports catalogue the original starter cluch for GS1100E 1980 onwards was 12600-49822, which was replaced by -49824 and then by -49825 and then by -49826.

Hope this helps.
 
The only things that has happen to me was I broke the 3 oem starter clutch bolts, forgot to replace them with 12.9 when I swap cranks. And spun the rotor assy due to I didn't torque the nut enough when I was at the track once.

I've always drilled out the rivits on the rotor and removed the magnet and just bolted it all back up. Haven't had any issues with that setup except when I installed my 1395cc block. With that you'll need to back off on the static timing cause she'll try to kickover backwards if you don't and makes one heck of a bang. Alot of stress on the crank bearings and starter assy.

I've even drop it in 2nd gear before at over 100mph with my 3.28 gearing and it stay together, think the rpms were in the 13K range???

I think if your a normal street rider then some stronger starter clutch bolts and making sure you torque the rotor nut down to the proper torque will solve any issues down the road.

When I do mine I also exceed the limit due to the clutch basket springs and cush drive rubber baby bumper pads that may affect you final torque reading when I have the rear rim blocked with some wood. And of course banging gears at 12K may have something to do with it too.
 
Thanks for the help.:)
I visited that Alpha Sports site and the drawings seem to say that he's sent me an 1100 part, 80's. I don't know if it would work but I can't take the chance so I'll send it back again. He still says he has two more. Who knows, maybe he still has one that's right and actually brand new?
By the way, anyone bought from Alpha Sports? They want about $100 less for the whole assembly than Suzuki. I was wondering about the quality of their parts.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top