dyna s coils and ignition?

[mbarton]

Hi, I have a 1982 GS550L which is my first bike. I love it except that for the last year or better I've been trying to get it to idle when it's hot. I fixed a lot of problems it had when I first got it such as the stator, rectifier, some bad contacts, bad o-rings on the intake boots, new battery, tires, carbs where dipped and synced by previous owner, etc... The bike runs strong but will stall when hot and the rpm's dip below 1500. and then I have to give it 10 min to cool down and it will fire up again and run like a champ. I think it could be the coils or the ignition system but I don't know how to narrow down the problem. I've seen many people recommend the the dyna s coils and ignition system. Is it better to change both and just be done with it? Am I over looking another potential issue besides an air leak I didn't find? The carbs seem to be in great shape and are synced up so I don't think it's a carb problem. I checked the petcock because I thought maybe it was leaking fule down the prime line and flooding the #2 cylinder but it seems solid. Then I made sure the plugs were in good shape and had the proper gap and they good to go. Also, the dyna system said it's for bikes with points. Doesn't the '82 GS550L have electronic ignition? Thanks for everyone's advice and help. This forum has helped me through a lot of other issues. Keep the rubber side down.

 

[Guest]

If it's takes a while to restart I would think the pecock is suspect.

 

[BassCliff]

Greetnigs and salutations!

Greetnigs and salutations!

Hi Mr. mbarton,

Let it be known that on this day you are cordially and formally welcomed to the GSR Forum as a Junior Member in good standing with all the rights and privileges thereof. Further let it be known that your good standing can be improved with pictures (not you, your bike)![FONT=Arial, sans-serif] [/FONT]

Perhaps you've already seen these, but I like to remind all the new members. In addition to the carb rebuild series, I recommend visiting the In The Garage section via the GSR Homepage and check out the Stator Papers. There's also a lot of great information in the Old Q&A section. I have some documentation on my little BikeCliff website to help get you familiar with doing routine maintenance tasks (note that it is 850G-specific but many tasks are common to all GS bikes). Other "user contributed" informational sites include those of Mr. bwringer, Mr. tfb and Mr. robertbarr. And if your bike uses shims for valve adjustments, send an email to Mr. Steve requesting a copy of his Excel spreadsheet that helps you keep track of clearances, shim sizes and other service work.

These are some edited quotes from one of our dear beloved gurus, Mr. bwringer, with ideas on basic needs (depending on initial condition), parts, and accessories.
***********Quoted from Mr. bwringer************
Every GS850 (and most other models) has (or had) a set of well-known issues that MUST be addressed before you have a solid baseline for further troubleshooting. It's a vintage bike, and it's quite common (as in, every single GS850 I have had contact with) that there are multiple problems that have crept up and slowly gotten worse over the years. It's not like a newer vehicle, where there's generally one problem at a time.

These common issues are:

1. Intake O-rings (install NEW OEM or Viton only - common nitrile O-rings will quickly deteriorate from heat)
2. Intake Boots (install NEW -- these cannot be repaired)
3. Valve clearances (more important than most people think)
4. Carb/airbox boots
5. Airbox sealing
6. Air filter sealing
7. Petcock (install a NEW one)
8. On '79 models, install new points or Dyna electronic ignition (or at least verify that the old points are working correctly)
9. On all models, it's fairly common to have problems with the spark plug caps. These are $3 or $4 each, and often worth replacing if you're keeping the stock coils/wires.
10. Stock exhaust with NO leaks or holes -- good seals at the head and at the junctions underneath.
***********************************
Carburetor maintenance:

Replace the intake boot o-rings, and possibly the intake boots. Here's the procedure:
http://bwringer.com/gs/intakeorings.html
Here's an overview of what happens with this particular problem:
http://cycleorings.com/intake.html
You'll also want to examine the boots between the carbs and the airbox. There's a good chance these are OK, but check them over.
And finally, if things still aren't exactly right, you'll want to order a set of o-rings for BS carbs from the GS owner's best friend, Robert Barr:
http://cycleorings.com
Once you receive these rare rings of delight, then you'll want to thoroughly clean and rebuild your carburetors. Here are step-by-step instructions that make this simple:
http://thegsresources.com/gs_carbrebuild.htm

***************************************
OEM Parts/Online Fiches:

I would definitely double and triple the recommendations to use Cycle Recycle II and Z1 Enterprises as much as possible. These guys are priceless resources. Z1 tends to have slightly better prices, CRC2 has a wider range of goodies available. If you're near Indy and can bring in an old part to match, CRC2 has a vast inventory of used parts.
http://denniskirk.com - Put in your bike model and see what they have.
http://oldbikebarn.com - seems to be slowly regaining a decent reputation, but it's still caveat emptor. They don't have anything you can't get elsewhere at a better price anyway.
http://www.babbittsonline.com/ - Decent parts prices. Spendy shipping. Don't give you part numbers at all. Useful cross-reference if you obtain a part number elsewhere. Efficient service.
http://bikebandit.com - Fastest. Middlin' prices. Uses their own parts numbering system to obfuscate price comparisons -- can be very confusing for large orders. Cheapest shipping, so total cost usually isn't too bad.
http://flatoutmotorcycles.com - Slow. Cheapest parts prices, crazy shipping costs. Don't expect progress updates or much communication. Real Suzuki part numbers.
http://alpha-sports.com - Exorbitant parts prices. Different type of fiche interface that's quite useful at times, especially with superceded part numbers. Real parts numbers. Shipping cost and speed unknown due to insane, unholy pricing.

Stainless Bolts, Viton o-rings, metric taps, dies, assorted hard-to-find supplies and materials, etc:

http://mcmaster.com - Fast, cheap shipping, good prices. No order minimum, but many items like bolts come in packs of 25 or 50. Excellent resource.
http://motorcycleseatcovers.com - Great quality, perfect fit (on original seat foam), and available for pretty much every bike ever made. Avoid the textured vinyl -- it's perforated.
http://newenough.com - You DO have riding gear, don't you? Great clearances, always outstanding prices and impeccable service.
***************End Quote**********************
Additional parts/info links:

GSR Forum member Mr. duaneage has great used upgraded Honda regulator/rectifiers for our bikes. Send him a PM.
New electrical parts:
http://stores.ebay.com/RMSTATOR or http://www.rmstator.com/
http://www.ricksmotorsportelectrics.com/index.php
http://www.electrosport.com/
For valve cover and breather cover gaskets, I recommend Real Gaskets (reusable silicon):
http://www.realgaskets.com
Carolina Cycle
http://www.carolinacycle.com
Ron Ayers Motorsports
http://www.ronayers.com
MR Cycles
http://www.mrcycles.com
Moto Grid
http://www.motogrid.com
Salvage/Used
http://www.ricepaddymotorcycles.com
http://www.ozpowersports.com/
If all else fails, try this:
http://www.used-motorcycle-parts.org/
Used bike buying checklists:
http://www.amadirectlink.com/roadride/Riderresc/checklist.asp
http://www.clarity.net/~adam/buying-bike.html
Lots of good info/pictures here:
http://www.suzukicycles.org
http://www.cyclechaos.com/wiki/Motorcycle_Wiki
http://www.bikepics.com
Basic motorcycle maintenance/repair:
http://www.dansmc.com/mc_repaircourse.htm
Online Clymer manuals:
http://search.ebscohost.com/ Click on "Small Engine Repair" then "Motorcycles". User=library, password=library. Note: This link may not work if you are on a school campus.

Thanks for joining us. Keep us informed of your progress. There's lots of good folk with good experience here.

Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff
(The unofficial GSR greeter)

Click here to visit BikeCliff's website.

 

[mbarton]

so you think it's a flooding problem possibly? The fuel valve didn't seem to leak in any of the positions when I tested it. I'm a pretty green mechanic so maybe I'm understanding how the system works as well as I thought... Thanks by the way for your help.

 

[salty_monk]

On an 82 you will prob have to retrofit a mechanical advance system from an 80 or 81 model to fit a Dyna S, you could fit a Dyna 2000 but it's much more expensive.

It could be incomplete combustion caused by a weak spark but I would also check that it's not too rich on the pilot (i.e. it's flooding). I've had this before. Backing the pilot screws off half a turn sorted it.

If it will run full bore as long as you don't let it idle then it's not being starved at the petcock & decent float valves should stop it from overfilling the bowls in any case....

Have you checked that it has a strong spark on all cylinders? Have you checked again when it's hot & won't start? If it does then you can be fairly sure it's not that!

Dan

 

[mbarton]

strong spark

strong spark

We (my dad and I, he's the senior mechanic!) did put a timing light on it just to check for a consistent spark and it looked good but I'll do some more reading and check again after it's hot. Thanks!

 

[salty_monk]

Pull the plugs out & ground them out to the head & watch the spark... timing light won't tell you a lot for this.

Dan

 

[Guest]

Does it stall when riding or only at idle?

 

[salty_monk]

Idle only I reckon.... had that on the G till I tweaked the pilots except mine would restart straight away as long as I kept the revs up. Probably less rich than this one.

It could also be overly full float bowls if he hasn't set the floats right I guess....

See this comment above:

The bike runs strong but will stall when hot and the rpm's dip below 1500. and then I have to give it 10 min to cool down and it will fire up again and run like a champ.

Dan

 

[Guest]

you've done a lot of work already , but add a valve clearances check to that list - tight valves get even tighter with heat so may contribute to hard starting

fuel mixture (at idle) is my main suspect though

 

[Nessism]

you've done a lot of work already , but add a valve clearances check to that list - tight valves get even tighter with heat so may contribute to hard starting

fuel mixture (at idle) is my main suspect though

Valve adjustment could cause this problem for sure; classic symptom is poor starting/running when hot.

Regarding the Dyna s ignition, it will be a direct bolt in (get the version for Nippondenso ignition). Before you spend the money though I'd check your spark plug boots for resistance and snip off a small section of plug wire so the boot has a fresh electrical contact. Check the easy stuff first.

 

[mbarton]

stalls on idle only

stalls on idle only

It runs great until it's warm and gets drops below 1500 rpms. Not as big a problem on a cool day. I'm going to look more into how good a spark I get when it's hot and see where I can go from there. You guys are a great resource. By the time I get this bike running right I might actually know something about motorcycles. I"ll keep you posted on how it goes this weekend when I dig into it and get some more grease under my finger nails. One more question, my clymer manual says idle speed should be between 1,100-2000 rpm. If I leave my throttle stop screw set near 2000 rpm it runs well but sometimes will climb on a hot day. Judging how the bike sounds, it seems like it purrs (until it dies) at around 1200-1300 rpm. Where do you guys set yours at?

 

[jtgraha2]

Ness,

How do you know he needs the ND style dyna? from the year?

 

[Guest]

i think dan is probably right, sounds like you're getting too much fuel at idle
as you say the po fiddled with the carbs, unless you personally know his skills, i would double check the floats' height and the mixture screws, would probably want to see the condition of the pilot fuel jets as well...

as for the idle rpm, bigger engines run at +/- 1050 rpms, not too sure for 550s though
2000 rpm seems excessive, maybe a typo in clymers?

 

[Nessism]

Ness,

How do you know he needs the ND style dyna? from the year?

KD style was only for points ignitions.

 

[mbarton]

New Coil worked!

New Coil worked!

Thanks to everyone on here that gave me their advice. I purchased a new ignition coil and after 15months of working on this bike it's running great.