DYNA S, easy install turned into WTF

[swrupert83]

For those of you impatient types scroll down to inquery.

******this line added may 26'th, turns out the dyna install isn't the problem here... that part was smooth sailing, those of you contiplating the install go for it. the install only takes like 30 minutes (if you have all the right toys)***********

To start off with, I recently installed a dyna S into my gs550 E 1980. all was smooth sailing, even wiring... or so i thought. I wired the dyna S via the wires off the old ignitor unit, just wire snipped them off the unit and into the three matching wires(dyna S has only three) using wire connector. reconnected the battery up and vwa-la, every thing beautiful... engine cranked, spark plugs fired in the correct order with beautiful big blue spark(observed this by watching spark from plug against block and peering in at indicator with flashlight and cranking engine) no issues. Disconnected battery, went to wally world for an induction timing gun, got home went to bed... Got up connected battery, turned key, hit starter button........NOTHING! noticed headlight doesn't work... no lights.... licked both fingers and grabbed battery terminal and deff voltage (just kidding used meter). retraced all connection on ENTIRE bike... no mistakes no visable shorts...... disconnected battery (forgot unturn key) big spark from negative terminal...ok???? touched again heard zap noise from spark plug area..... odd??? so i pulled a plug laid again block touched neagtive lead to neagative battery terminal .... ZOLT... big PURPLE spark.... checked this with all plugs all four doo this TOGETHER... what the hell

So problem is
Starter Won't turn
no blown fuses
ALL plugs fire at once... constant voltage out of and into coils
lights wont turn on

WTF!!!!!!!!!!

 

[rustybronco]

For those of you impatient types scrool down to inquery.

So problem is
1. Starter Won't turn
2. no blown fuses
3. ALL plugs fire at once... constant voltage out of and into coils
4. lights wont turn on

WTF!!!!!!!!!!

1. pwr goes from the battery to the clutch switch then to the solenoid. (the ignition switch is in there also)
check first. and check the grounds also.
2. good!
3. pwr goes to the coils and comes out of them when they're "charging" if you disconnect pwr or the cdi box disconnects them (as it does) that is when they fire, so if you disconnect the battery or turn off the key both coils will "fire" as you say.
4. wiring digram and a voltmeter is required.

if all was working before, a wire that is common to the start circuit and head lamp cicuit probably got disconnected (or ground wire).

 

[swrupert83]

1. pwr goes from the battery to the clutch switch then to the solenoid. (the ignition switch is in there also)
check first. and check the grounds also.
2. good!
3. pwr goes to the coils and comes out of them when they're "charging" if you disconnect pwr or the cdi box disconnects them (as it does) that is when they fire, so if you disconnect the battery or turn off the key both coils will "fire" as you say.
4. wiring digram and a voltmeter is required.

if all was working before, a wire that is common to the start circuit and head lamp cicuit probably got disconnected (or ground wire).

ok.. here's the thing my wiring diagram LIES because on my gs550E 1980 the battery connects direct to the starting solenoid (also on the same terminal is a power line going to the fuse box), which in turn has a white and green wire attached into it and a black wire (on a seperate terminal) connecting the starting solenoid to the starter

I'm hoping you are right (and you sound so) about the coil discharge.... to test this i'll just manually crank the engine and should see a spark (to know wiether or not i some-how toasted my brand new ignition system)

then i can try attempt number 10, of tracing all the wires and lookin for improper connections......sigh

 

[t3rmin]

He's right about the coil discharge. Coils are powered all of the time and will discharge when power is removed. They discharge even when you turn the key off -- if you have a little uncombusted gas in a cylinder somehow, you'll hear a little poof when turning off the key sometimes.

 

[t3rmin]

What you want to do is pull out one of the plugs, ground it against the block, and with the key on and kill switch on, rotate the crank by hand. As the rotor passes the (correct) pickup coil on the Dyna S, you should see a spark. You can do this will each plug wire to make sure.

 

[swrupert83]

what i still can't figure it what killed the power to the rest of the bike (starter, lights) if all i did was disconnect .... wait 10 hours and then reconnect the main negative lead..... with no blown fuses.. and a full charge battery

(thanks for the coil info ... the gut wrenching dread has now left my body)

 

[swrupert83]

it might be the same gremlins that steal socks from my laundry hahah...once i get off of work i'll scour the entire bike... again with the volt meter and my trusty (and sometimes liar) wiring diagram

 

[rustybronco]

ok.. here's the thing my wiring diagram LIES because on my gs550E 1980 the battery connects direct to the starting solenoid (also on the same terminal is a power line going to the fuse box), which in turn has a white and green wire attached into it and a black wire (on a seperate terminal) connecting the starting solenoid to the starter

the battery positive (+) wire goes to the starter solenoid (large wire) when the solenoid is energized pwr goes through it to the starter, there are usually two smaller wires on the solenoid also, one of which starts at the junction of the battery wire at the solenoid and then the wire goes to the fuse panel from there it goes through the fuse to the ignition switch then to the starter button,"kill switch", clutch safety switch (maybe not in this order but you get the idea) and back to one of the smaller terminals on the starter solenoid, the other wire at the solenoid is the ground wire. is the kill swich off? and did you try both the high and low beams?

 

[swrupert83]

thinkin back.....there is a small possiblity that the trans. isn't in N ... gauges are disconnected and i recently took the cover off the stator and shifter cover off for the next step of the project.... explains no crank.... but still doesn't explain no horn or lights

 

[rustybronco]

Yah got every thing you need, a wiring diagram, voltmeter and THEGSRESOURCES... so no gut wrenching dread is called for

 

[rustybronco]

thinkin back.....gauges are disconnected and i recently took the cover off the stator and shifter cover off for the next step of the project.... explains no crank.... but still doesn't explain no horn or lights

gauges are disconnected? youz been foolin with them thar head lamp wires haven't ya... where do you think they all connect on the bike?

 

[swrupert83]

horn???????....turn signals.... brake light... these don't wire through the gauge connections.... i pretty sure but not entirely that i've had the head light workin without the the gauges connected in the last 3 days.. (gauges have been off for over a 2 weeks)... at the very least i know that the horn WAS workin before this morning and not since

 

[rustybronco]

Let me put it a different way... all those connections are inside the headlight bucket, here deoxit, and a scotch brite pad are your friend.
save yourself some trouble down the road and clean all the connections on the bike, one at a time.

 

[swrupert83]

yeah... been there..... did that ( connection cleaning) before starting this project... and tested every thing before deconstructing for the dyna s install with the gauges disconnected... (the gauges don't work anymore.... replacing with 2700/2800 series gauge from electro sport)
again i can't stress enough about my issue..... it ALL worked last night before disconnecting ONE wire ... the main Negative led connectin the bike to the battery..and goin to bed

 

[rustybronco]

understood.

 

[badbrown]

Here's my guess. You igniter unit is BAD. They are known to fail. OKAY?
A Dyna S doesn't need the igniter unit to work so what you do is unplug the igniter from the bike and the coils also unplug. Run the black and white to the coils and splice the red power wire into the orange from where you unpluged the coils....................Same thing happened on one of my 550's and basically bypassed the dead igniter box and fired right up. A dead igniter box makes the bike completley dead. Also you can run wires loosely to the respective areas, then test, then do a final hook up.

 

[swrupert83]

i suspected that was the issue from the time i ordered the Dyna S, that is why the old ignitor unit is on my work bench in a million pieces. (i wanted to know what was inside \\/ ). that being said i wanted to be able to easily disconnect the dyna S ...SOOOO (as discussed previously in a different thread) i wired the DYNA S using the wires i snipped off the old ignitor unit there so as to be able to use the factory connection plug (white stripped orange (to red), white (to white), yellow stripped black(to black))...That previously connected the ignitor unit to the motorcycle wires.

the dyna s and the coils work perfectly (when the key is turned ...as they should) no issues with that part..... its the rest of the bike that is deader than a door nail

 

[swrupert83]

OK now here is the issue as of this morning

DYNA S works great perfect..... turn the key manualy crank engine... the plugs fire off properly. wooo hooo great

The starter won't crank when starter button pushed.... (if a take a screw diver and lay across the two terminals on the starter relay starter cranks away happily)

battery has full charge non issue

lights, horn do(es)n't work

BUT neutral light and oil pressure light do turn on when key is turned to the on position (yes mister bronco i reconnected my gauges for arguments sake)

the same gremlins that ruined my motorcycle also stole my multimeter so i wasn't able to do much tracing out on the bike...off to buy a new one after spendin hours lookin for it great!!!

I suspect that there is a ground common to all the fused circuits not connected... i just can't find it ....... i've disconnect every connection traced every wire reconnect every thing to no availe

i even went as far as starting the next step and installing the new stator and reg/rectifer.... put the whole bike back together (in a far fetched vain hope) and tried to start (with my fingers crossed).... nothing:-s ..... then i crossed the terminal on the starter relay with a screw driver and the starter, started turning again and the motorcycle fired up and ran (and i shut off after a few seconds...)... just no lights ...horn...ext... ext...


is the starter relay supposed to have a ground wire coming off of it or does it ground via mounting

does anyone have a factory wire diagram for a 1980 GS550E, my bike is a bizzarro mix of the diagrams, found in the clymer manual, for the 1980 E & L meaning what i know, i can point out on the different diagrams but tracing out what i don't .....is well....frustrating..///

 

[swrupert83]

OK finally got a new volt meter (a nice one too :-D )
Traced everthing out..... when i hit the starter button... i was only getting 5 volts goin through. checked the lighting via the fuses : clipped red to fuse terminal end holding fuse then with switch on gounded seemed fine 12.2 volts.... but the 5 volt comin through the button back to the starter relay bugged me. so i took a peice of 12 gauge wire and made a connection direct to the battery negative terminal and connected to the mounting bolt for the starter relay, turned the key..lights came on :-s, pushed the start button... and she turned good as new \\/ . for what ever reason the groundin through the frame just wasn't cuttin it anymore...even though it worked for years.. now all i have to do is finish painting and then check the tappets

problems solved!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.... knock on wood

 

[t3rmin]

Actually come to think of it, that's a common recommendation for these bikes. Bad grounding is a frequent issue. One of the first things I did with my new project was run a supplementary ground wire to the stator mount (which it also where the stator ground wire goes). Congrats!