Dyna S install AFTER the coil relay mod.

[Planetsmasher]

Thanks for indulging me here, I realize that there is a well known post on doing a coil mod on a bike that already has Dyna S ignition installed. However, I'm going at it from the other direction.

I did the coil relay mod a few years ago, and perhaps it helped.. perhaps not. Didn't do any harm anyways. That being said I rode for a few years trouble free, and recently I have had serious enough ignition problems (that I couldn't totally diagnose) that I am going with a Dyna S upgrade, just to simplify it and eliminate the troublesome igniter box. Now that I have a automotive relay in place as per the coil mod, does this suggest I cannot run the leads from the Dyna S directly to the coils as the instructions say. Have i added to the complications by having a coil relay mod done first? Do I need to undo the coil relay mod altogether and start from a stock set-up"? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[posplayr]

Nothing is permanent so the order of installation should not bear too much on your final configuration.


http://www.thegsresources.com/_foru...(with-Dyna-S)&highlight=coil+relay+mod+dyna+S

 

[Guest]

There's nothing wrong with having a dyna ignition and the coil relay mod. Both my bikes have the same set up. It's all layed out on Cliffs site or you can search on here.

 

[Planetsmasher]

There's nothing wrong with having a dyna ignition and the coil relay mod. Both my bikes have the same set up. It's all layed out on Cliffs site or you can search on here.

True, but they talk about using the old 4 pin connection to the igniter, and I thought the idea was to eliminate the ignter?

 

[Guest]

I have not done anything with a Dyna S, but I would suspect that the coils still need to get 12 volt (nominal) power. They won't care whether that power comes through the stock wiring or a new(-ish) relay. The Dyna system is installed after the coils, so it really shouldn't matter if you have the relay mod or not.

 

[Planetsmasher]

Nothing is permanent so the order of installation should not bear too much on your final configuration.


http://www.thegsresources.com/_foru...(with-Dyna-S)&highlight=coil+relay+mod+dyna+S

Pos, you'll have to pardon me for being thick. Allow me some questions. I have recieved my Dynatek ignition in the post today and am trying to put the pieces of the puzzle together. As stated, I already have done the coil relay mod. So I have to determine how to wire the 4 leads on the new part into my relay. Dyna has a black, whit, two reds spliced together and a red that's meant to be sliced to the orange/white that goes to the coils.

1. The instructions with the Dyna show that the orange/white are common for a bit then split off to run one each too each coil. According to the directions I am to splice the supplied red wire to the orange/white (with included splice connector). However now that I've done the coil mod there isn't a common orange/white... but rather two dedicated wired coming out of the relay to the coils(87 and 87 on the relay) so It seems clear this splice isn't the right answer anymore.

2. Am I to understand that the point is to use the old 4 pin connector that was "downstream" of the now discarded igniter box? If thats the case, I cannot discern how to do this from the drawing. Can you dummy it up for me?

Thanks in advance!

 

[Planetsmasher]

Or let me pose an even simpler question: Does the wire coming back from the kill switch into 86 of the relay constitute 'switched 12v power' ... to which I can splice the supply red from the Dyna?

 

[Guest]

Isn't 86 the switched power? and 87 is the red lead coming from the Dyna and it's spliced out to both coils? here's 2 links from Cliffs site

http://members.dslextreme.com/users/storagecliff1/images/DynaS_Coil_RelayMod.pdf

http://members.dslextreme.com/users/bikecliff/images/coil_relay_mod.html

 

[posplayr]

Or let me pose an even simpler question: Does the wire coming back from the kill switch into 86 of the relay constitute 'switched 12v power' ... to which I can splice the supply red from the Dyna?

You could do that, but you should power the entire ignition circuit from the relay.

There are about 10 different ways to do a coil relay mod and I have no idea which you picked. The way I show requires no changes at teh coils from stock.

 

[Guest]

You just want to make sure the relay is controlled by the kill switch. If you do that and follow the Dyna instructions from an older bike like mine, everything will be powered properly.

 

[Planetsmasher]

Isn't 86 the switched power? and 87 is the red lead coming from the Dyna and it's spliced out to both coils? here's 2 links from Cliffs site

http://members.dslextreme.com/users/storagecliff1/images/DynaS_Coil_RelayMod.pdf

http://members.dslextreme.com/users/bikecliff/images/coil_relay_mod.html

Yes Azr, that's how I have it... the lead to 86 on the relay is from my kill switch on the right grip. I have a 5 pin bosch relay like this:



I have it done as: a lead from battery with inline fuse to 30. Kill switch to 86. Grounded wire from chassis to 85. 1 from each of the 87's to each orange/white going to coils.

 

[posplayr]

I appreciate your help with my ignition.. but I'm not too swift with even the simplest schematic. Can you help me out?

what circuit are you talking about; you need to try a little harder.

I'm referring to the schematic produced by you, made available 4/28/2009. You show a couple of junction spots for groups of wires. i.e. 'old 4-pin ignition plug', and 'OEM igniter plug'.

Lets say that the two wire groups that come out of a black igniter box are referred to in this manner: the upstream side= the 2 pin connector that connects the signal generator on the right side engine casing. the downstream side= the 4 pin connector that leads back up into the harness and must go to the coils.

So now I have taken the old igniter out altogether. So when you refer to the "OEM igniter plug", you mean the connector left over in the harness on the downstream end, where the igniter would have plugged into, correct? And when you refer to an "old 4-pin ignition plug" that attaches the Dyna, are you suggesting salvaging one end of the old igniter box before it goes in the bin or what?

Thanks Sir. A million thanks.

Yes...........................

 

[Planetsmasher]

Thanks Pos. And to anyone who cares to wade into it... please see the diagram^ Is that the proper place to splice in the red power for the Dyna or should it be one of the Orange/white between the relay and the coils?

 

[posplayr]

View attachment 44945

Thanks Pos. And to anyone who cares to wade into it... please see the diagram^ Is that the proper place to splice in the red power for the Dyna or should it be one of the Orange/white between the relay and the coils?

Just so you know Dyna S's are known to be susceptible to low voltage which to a DynaS is 11 volts (or perhaps higher) so wiring the red where you did is certainly NOT the "proper way" to do this mod. It might work, it might be easier to understand but I would hardly recommend it anyone else but you as you seem intent on doing it that way despite the schematic links I provided and my PM description of same.

As I generally always recommend, one should power the entire IGN circuit off of the relay not just the coils. A side benefit is that it is even easier than doing just the coils, you just have to know how to perform the surgery but then that has been described in the link provided.

Nothing is permanent so the order of installation should not bear too much on your final configuration.


http://www.thegsresources.com/_foru...(with-Dyna-S)&highlight=coil+relay+mod+dyna+S

30 - Fused Battery
86 - Kill Switch (O/W)
85 - Harness ground B/W
87 - Ignition Circuit (Coils, Dyna S)

 

[Planetsmasher]

So you're saying, "don't get power to the dyna from splicing into ANY other wire.. get it from the 87 of the relay".

 

[Guest]

87 feeds both coils and the Dyna-S. That's why they provide such a long wire from the Dyna-S, so it will reach the coil feed. The highlighted portion of your diagram is wrong where you show 86 feeding the Dyna-S at the splice. The O/W wire from the kill switch in the original wiring comes directly from the kill switch and splits into two wires, one for each coil. That is usually where you cut the O/W wire and divert it to terminal 86 from the kill switch so it actuates the relay with the kill switch and you re-feed the coil side of the O/W wire before the split with 87. Your diagram and picture of the relay show two terminals for 87. Electrically they are the same terminal. 86 closes the relay and 87 runs +12V directly from the battery to the coils and the Dyna-S. The whole point of the mod is to bypass any possible voltage drop in the ignition circuit and provide +12V to the Dyna-S and coils. If there is a voltage drop from the kill switch to terminal 86 it won't matter any more because that reduced voltage is more than enough to close the relay and give you direct battery voltage to the important parts of the ignition system.

 

[Planetsmasher]

Thanks Vet, that's easy to understand!

 

[posplayr]

Thanks Vet, that's easy to understand!

Sorry for confusing the situation; I guess harness surgery is not for everyone. What I described avoided hacking the harness which is what you would be doing running the dyna wires to the coils.

 

[Guest]

Hopefully knowing how it works will open other avenues of thought. once known and a schematic, there are definitely other ways to do the job. I was always taught to simplify the diagrams. I have come to the conclusion that you think in a magnitude above us mere mortals Jim. I'm getting older and have forgotten what was once stamped in my brain so going back to the basics always helps keep me from getting lost as you will probably live to regret when I get to installing my SSPB. I have decided that it needs to go on the back of the electrics plate so I'm in the process of cutting out my old air box to accommodate it and glass it back in so I can keep my air box tool box. I have a lot of polishing and harness connectors to replace so it might be close to winter before I do it, Then the questions will come no doubt. I also made a set of jumpers so the harness could be put back together at the relay if it ever failed on a trip and I didn't have a replacement on board.

 

[posplayr]

Hopefully knowing how it works will open other avenues of thought. once known and a schematic, there are definitely other ways to do the job. I was always taught to simplify the diagrams. I have come to the conclusion that you think in a magnitude above us mere mortals Jim. I'm getting older and have forgotten what was once stamped in my brain so going back to the basics always helps keep me from getting lost as you will probably live to regret when I get to installing my SSPB. I have decided that it needs to go on the back of the electrics plate so I'm in the process of cutting out my old air box to accommodate it and glass it back in so I can keep my air box tool box. I have a lot of polishing and harness connectors to replace so it might be close to winter before I do it, Then the questions will come no doubt.

I think you are very correct! Despite my attempts at describing something as the absolute minimum, absolute simplest, and absolutely easiest to understand schematic, the result is often confusion and a general shut down in the ability to think. Just look at some of some of Planetsmasher's questions about relay pin connections. There is a clearly labeled and color coded relay in the schematic posted 6 years ago but he was unable to translate that to his schematic with the same relay pin numbering on the Dyna S schematic! I'm ignoring teh fact I even told him teh same by PM in words.

Granted my schematic is more complex but that is because it shows "where" to place the cut and jumper on your GS harness(to minimize cuts and wires), while adding both in the DynaS schematic as well as the Relay mod schematic all in one. It took me about 5 minutes to think about and in fact I did need to draw the schematic to resolve it in my mind, but it is really not "that complicated" or is it?. Certainly no so complicated that a person can not find the relay and pinout for the relay. But apparently it really is .

I see this often, people see a degree of complexity that they can not immediately absorb and the brains go into shut down mode. As an EE, I use the language of schematics so I often do not realize how even simple schematics can elicit this shutdown behavior.

I work on much more complicated stuff than this, and I really do attempt to make it as simple as possible. More and more I'm realizing it is a losing proposition. I understand now when somebody posted about "dumbing down" products; I now know what they mean.