Eastwood Engine Paint Universal Aluminum

[08rangerdan]

An etching primer should always be used on steel unless you know there are no waxes or grease remaining in the pores. I always sandblast steel or any metal before paint. When i cant sandblast i always use a chemical etch on aluminum because paint has a hard time curing to bare aluminum unless it has a good etch

 

[Nessism]

You did air cure the paint for 24 hours before the oven?

No I didn't. Instructions don't tell you too. Just to make sure it's "dry" first.

An etching primer should always be used on steel unless you know there are no waxes or grease remaining in the pores. I always sandblast steel or any metal before paint. When i cant sandblast i always use a chemical etch on aluminum because paint has a hard time curing to bare aluminum unless it has a good etch

I abraded the metal and degreased right before painting.

A primer might have helped the adhesion. The paint cracked and flaked right off during the crosshatch cutting.

As for the gas soak, the paint is softened and lifted on the edges where the film build was lower. In the center of the part the paint is thicker it didn't lift during the gas soak but the paint is really soft and you can scrape it right off with a fingernail.

 

[rustybronco]

An etching primer should always be used on steel

Not true. Epoxy primers work very well on steel and in my opinion surpass what etching primers are capable of doing. Put an epoxy primer over steel and leave it to the elements then try the same with an etch.

That's not to say there is anything wrong with using an etching primer, it's just not the best product out there to use on steel in my humble opinion.

 

[chuck hahn]

DRY to me would mean fully dry to the base metal. Dry as in to the touch doesnt mean it has dried fully and has had time to gas out.

 

[Nessism]

There were no signs of outgassing due to trapped solvents. I seriously doubt the results would be different if more time was allowed before baking.

 

[08rangerdan]

Not true. Epoxy primers work very well on steel and in my opinion surpass what etching primers are capable of doing. Put an epoxy primer over steel and leave it to the elements then try the same with an etch.

That's not to say there is anything wrong with using an etching primer, it's just not the best product out there to use on steel in my humble opinion.

Of course epoxy would be the best. But if we were using epoxy paints we wouldnt be having any of these problems. We are talking about rattle can vht paints for the most part now. If you want to spend a bit extra and lay down an epoxy primer and then shoot your colour you would be much happier with adhesion. But remember even once epoxy has hardened it must be abraised fir anything to stick to it

 

[Nessism]

VHT makes an engine paint primer so that seems to be the obvious choice. Don't think general purpose etching or epoxy primers are appropriate for use on an air cooled engine (but I may be wrong).

 

[08rangerdan]

No I didn't. Instructions don't tell you too. Just to make sure it's "dry" first.



I abraded the metal and degreased right before painting.

A primer might have helped the adhesion. The paint cracked and flaked right off during the crosshatch cutting.

As for the gas soak, the paint is softened and lifted on the edges where the film build was lower. In the center of the part the paint is thicker it didn't lift during the gas soak but the paint is really soft and you can scrape it right off with a fingernail.

Defeniately let it dry 24 hours. That would explain any odour it was burning off. If i remember correctly the paint takes some 7 days to fully cure.. I think it still says this on the can.. I normally dont smell anything while baking vht. Sometimes rattle can Primers are not the best choice over a proper spray on 2 stage application. Ill tell you that nothing will be fuel proof. The fumes are the most aggressive but fuel will ruin paint if left in contact long enough with anything. Gloss paints are most resistant and matte or satin will be the hardest to maintain. If you absolutely need durrability and fuel resistance use the 2 stage epoxies. Even a cheap tremclad thinned waaay out to spray, mixed with a universal hardener will be plenty fuel and wear resistant. Ive never seen a rattle can primer that given me any hope. I always resort to mixing epoxies.

The east wood paint would be a great choice for your colour. I know you wont have any problems with it for fuel resistance or heat. If you use a chemical etch it wont be chipping off either

You would be approximately $50 for the quart of universal aluminum and hardener. Then a small can of the chemical etch for aluminum would set you back another $20 or so. Then you know you did a really tough job. But it really is all in the prep.. Also another note, if you sodablast something it doesnt make it paint ready! You must use a primer or if its an aluminum surface forget the primer and use the chemical etch.

 

[08rangerdan]

VHT makes an engine paint primer so that seems to be the obvious choice. Don't think general purpose etching or epoxy primers are appropriate for use on an air cooled engine (but I may be wrong).

Do not use primer on aluminum. Use a chemical etch.. Im being general for all applications. Aluminum is tough to paint on and even Primers have difficulties

 

[londonboards]

From my limited experience using VHT products on brake calipers:

Painting Problems with VHT paint

More Painting Problems with VHT paint

I would conclude that to paint successfully on aluminum parts you would need to do all of the following:

1. Paint strip
2. Vapour blast or media blast
3. Boil parts in water to remove anything in the pores
4. Possibly ultrasonically clean as well
5. Use an appropriate etcher
6. Use a primer
7. Apply several coats of product quite thinly
7. Allow six hours air drying
8. Follow instructions on baking very carefully.

Might just work. Or get them powder coated.

Greetings

 

[08rangerdan]

From my limited experience using VHT products on brake calipers:

Painting Problems with VHT paint

I would conclude that to paint successfully on aluminum parts you would need to do all of the following:

1. Paint strip
2. Vapour blast or media blast
3. Boil parts in water to remove anything in the pores
4. Possibly ultrasonically clean as well
5. Use an appropriate etcher
6. Use a primer
7. Apply several coats of product quite thinly
7. Allow six hours air drying
8. Follow instructions on baking very carefully.

Might just work. Or get them powder coated.

Greetings

Imo nobody ive ever heard of or worked with does all of that with aluminum. Aluminum sucks to paint, plain and simple, but ive never had bad results with a soda or glass bead blast to a "chemical" self etch (( aluma-prep)) and then paint.. Done. But use a quality paint for grief sake.. Spend the money on prep to throw spray bombs on it is rediculous.. Imo

All i do for calipers is mask off cylinders and throw them in a blasting cabinet with straight sand to rough them up and resurface them. Clean them off with virgin gun wash then hit with vht. Sticks better then anything with that mechanical bond. Wait 24 hours then bake

 

[rustybronco]

Dan,

If you have any un-catalysed Eastwood aluminum engine paint left, would you mind spraying a panel, baking it if the instructions call for it, and leaving it set for a week before soaking it in fuel like Ed has done with the VHT?

 

[londonboards]

Not sure of your point here.

Don't waste money on spray bombs: you mean cans of VHT?

Then you say: hit with VHT.

Are you saying VHT is good or bad?

Greetings

 

[08rangerdan]

Dan,

If you have any un-catalysed Eastwood aluminum engine paint left, would you mind spraying a panel, baking it if the instructions call for it, and leaving it set for a week before soaking it in fuel like Ed has done with the VHT?

Without the hardener it just wont hold up to gasoline for long, nothing will. The activator is key. Just another thing i noticed with my motor during degreasing.. The oem aluminum coating came off quite easily with a straight non diluted degreaser.. Just keep that in mind. The original coating wasnt that tough itself.

 

[08rangerdan]

Not sure of your point here.

Don't waste money on spray bombs: you mean cans of VHT?

Then you say: hit with VHT.

Are you saying VHT is good or bad?

Greetings

In short. Vht products are good but they have their ideal uses.. i feel alot of their products really just are not acceptable to use for what they are stated for. There are more ideal products available

All im saying is.. if i put hundreds of dollars into preparation for a part.. Im not going to put a $14 colour on it.... And hope for the best.

IF you have a blasting cabinet full of sand and can clean your own hardware or calipers properly without spending any money on labour, then a $14 can of vht seems much more appealing.. For that application.. (That is my uses for vht. Kick stands, calipers, hardware, brackets.. Etc.. Stuff i can manage myself in the cabinet AND usually items that ill be needing to touch up later anyways)

To do a motor is much more involved. after you degrease it and prep it You minimally will want to send it out for the majority of the cleaning. In north america ive learned vapour blasting isnt a convienient method. Usually most things like aluminum motors receive a soda blasting. Usually this will cost you between $50-80. that only removes paint and some crud but does nothing to prepare the metal. From there you will take your motor and clean off any residue and another degreasing is good to do. When dry you could attack it with your aluma-prep and then be ready for paint.. With all the money in supplies and labour to do a motor i simply would not think about using a $14 can of paint.

If you want to sit there with a wire wheel and a brush and do all that prep yourself. Maybe even go out and find a setup to soda blast the motor yourself ..etc.. And leave out alot of that cost of supplies. Then the paint you put on it is all up to you and what your time is worth.. Nothing looks nicer then good paint
. But nothing feels better then doing something for cheap.. Paint just isnt something you can cheap out on if you want fantastic results.

 

[rustybronco]

http://www.bondline.org/wiki/Metal_Conditioning

 

[Nessism]

You made a decision yet Dale?

Working on my KZ750 engine and noticed the parts are painted inside and out, then machined. The paint they used obviously sticks well and is chemical resistant. Wonder what they use?

Eastwood won't ship that engine paint to CA so that puts a damper on that idea for me. Thinking maybe Por-15. Not thrilled about gloss paint though.

 

[rustybronco]

You made a decision yet Dale?

Working on my KZ750 engine and noticed the parts are painted inside and out, then machined. The paint they used obviously sticks well and is chemical resistant. Wonder what they use?

Eastwood won't ship that engine paint to CA so that puts a damper on that idea for me. Thinking maybe Por-15. Not thrilled about gloss paint though.

For the most part, yes I did decide. I'm not exactly pleased with gloss either, but at this point I think it's best to go with Eastwood's product mixed with their Catalyst. That should solve any issues if fuel gets on them. I'll shoot the cases first them go from there.


Do you think a pint will will be enough to cover everything on the KZ, or do you think you'll need the better part of a full quart?

 

[Nessism]

For the most part, yes I did decide. I'm not exactly pleased with gloss either, but at this point I think it's best to go with Eastwood's product mixed with their Catalyst. That should solve any issues if fuel gets on them. I'll shoot the cases first them go from there.


Do you think a pint will will be enough to cover everything on the KZ, or do you think you'll need the better part of a full quart?

PM coming your way...

 

[rustybronco]

I wonder if I can get away with using less of the Catalyst to reduce the gloss level, yet still retain a good portion of it's fuel resistance?

I feel a test coming on...