Easy Aluminum Repair/Farbrication

[posplayr]

EDIT 11/28/10: I finally selected HTS-2000 which was recommended here. I was a little hesitant to use it on anything structural but I used it to braze fender mounts to my GSXR forks to adapt the GS front fairing to them. No the fender is plastic, but I also mounted the under fender brace for extra fork stiffness and have seen no fatigue or cracking at the fender mounts. Aluminum needs alot of heat , but if you have a good torch then this stuff is good.

http://aluminumrepair.com/land/index.asp?src=google&gclid=CJbig_CwxaUCFZdS2godxwTlWA


I need to make a guage cover to clean up the look of my Gixxer street fighter. This is a non structural cover that will attach to the gixxer guages. I'm going to try this and even better you can apparently buy the same stuff at Harbor Freight.

The only down sides i have seen are that depending on the supplier, there may be variations in quality and strength of the material. Otherwise as long as the material doesn't see more than the 700 deg F required to get it to flow should be a nice alternative to spending $600+ for a Mig machine to for welding small Aluminum repairs.

This is probabaly an ideal technique for repairing those pesky broken carb float posts :-\\\


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jijW310xvp4&feature=related


http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=44810

http://www.durafix.com/

http://www.aluminumrepair.com/



FYI HB also has one of these. 18" Bending Brake

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=39103

Gotta love these guys.

Pos

 

[posplayr]

Carb and other Aluminum Fix links at GSR

Carb and other Aluminum Fix links at GSR

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?p=866454&highlight=durafix#post866454

The carbs are mad of 'pot metal' - another name for a zinc / aluminium alloy that's cheap and easy to cast. You can use aluminium welding sticks (eg Durafix Easyweld - www.easyweld.com/ - which is really akin to solder) to repair this sort of thing.

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=121136&highlight=durafix

Hello Hampshire.....This is indeed an aluminum solder which melts at a much lower temp than the base metal (aluminum). I've used it maybe a couple of dozen times over the years (and just came in from the shop where I was doing just this to repair a broken marine distributor housing). It's best for use on non-critical parts where the crack or gouge, is stable (not stressed much). It's poor for building up on thin edges which can be a job even with TIG sometimes.
Although often demonstrated on thin aluminum using a propane torch, if the base metal is thicker (1/8" or more) or even worse, if the pieces to be attached are of significant thickness or thin to thick, then it becomes tricky.....and signiciant heat may be required with a delicate balance between heating the base metal while simulaneously keeping the rod near melting.

Like any aluminum repair, prepping the surface to be oil and corrosion free is important - shiny and dry. Heat evenly while keeping the rod near the flame edge.....and wipe the rod against the repair area to determine when it starts to melt evenly, with good adherance to the surrounding area (not blobbing or bubbling). In this respect it'll look very similar to tin/lead soldering except a little fussier with good flow. It doesn't work well overhead but can be put in flat (preferred) or vertical with some practice.

All that said, would I try it on a cooling fin........probably not. Reasons are several.....but poor build up, length of time hot and amount of local heating put into the cylinder are just a couple - often things like fins are or get, porous over the years and may have significant aluminum oxide and/or oil in these pores which makes surface prep almost impossible.

My .02 worth.

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=71995&highlight=aluminum+repair

I bought a product years ago called alumalloy, which claimed to be stronger than aluminum with a lower melting point so you could work it with a regular torch. I never tried it for an application like this, but according to the ads it would be perfect.

Assuming you don't have a gaping hole in your cover you would heat up the inside with a torch and then apply the alumalloy like solder until it pooled up and filled the crack while bonding to the aluminum. Then you grind down the excess and you have a "stronger than original repair," according to the ad.

The ads actually showed the product being used to recast broken mounting tabs on alternators and stuff like that. The results looked impressive. Has anyone else used this stuff, and if so what were the results. We originally purchased it to do some aluminum repairs on our boat, but never got around to it and eventually got rid of the boat. I still have the alumalloy.

Let me know if you want to buy a few rods from me (they are similar in length to welding rods) ... I'd be interested to know how it works out, and the cost would be five to ten bucks (as I recall the original bundle of rods was fifty bucks back in the day...

Good Luck!

 

[Nessism]

I recently bought some of that stuff in an attempt to repair some broken cylinder fins. The cylinder acted like a massive heat sink, which it is, so the repair area would not come up to temperature enough to get the rod to melt. That video shows them repairing some pretty thin material, which is easy to heat and bring up to temperature. Not saying this stuff is bad, only that it works best on thin materials where it's easy to heat.

 

[posplayr]

Mapp gas or Propane?

Mapp gas or Propane?

Ed,
Which did you use?

In the prior link, I found the same concern about getting enough heat into the part melt at 700 degF. It even takes a little while sometimes at solder temperatures and large pieces of copper. So the issue really is with the torch and not the material.

I wonder if they wade this stuff with wire feed as even at 120V it probably produces enough heat to melt.

I also have some tabs to weld to a swing arm so I'm figuring this along with the guage cover are good applications. I have an aluminum later on my Motorhome that could use some of the same as these are all pretty thin.

Any other success's?

Pos

 

[Hammered]

The best of the newer aluminum torch rods are the HTS2000. Ive been using this stuff for a while and it works so much better than the older Duralloy and the others. You can find them on Fleabay in 5 and 10 rod packs.
http://cgi.ebay.com/10-HTS-2000-18-Aluminum-Brazing-Rods-COMPLETE-KIT_W0QQitemZ270333545337QQcmdZViewItemQQptZBI_Welding_Supplies?hash=item270333545337&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318|301%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A50

 

[posplayr]

Thanks Hammered

Thanks Hammered

I'll try that stuff.

Some more Q and A with suggesting to get more heat on the subject than propane. (i.e. Mapp gas)

Q: 1- Can this product be heated enough with a homeowners propane tourch? 2- After review of the material ia appears it will make repairs in aluminum boats. Is this considered a temporary or permenant repair. If temporary, how long? 3- After repair in aluminum boat will repair flex with the metalboat or remain stiff and consequently in time break the weld loose?Jan-22-09A: 1) Provided your material is less than 1/4" thick, a propane torch will suffice. But I'd recommend buying a yellow can of MAPP gas to use with your torch, it will deliver more heat and save time. 2) If done properly, it is permanent. 3) The HTS-2000 alloy is 3x more flexible than aluminum. Regards, Larry

 

[Hammered]

1: I use the same torch you can buy at the Harry Homeowner's store.
2: I bought it to fix the country boys Jon boats here and I havent had one come back. So perma fix.
3: I havent had a repair come back so Im not sure.

Gauge of material doent matter with this stuff. You heat the area til it hits 700 something degrees and "smear" the rod to the hole. It will wax over a hole. Ive closed holes about an inch by waving it over the area after its been heated. Remember, youre only heating the surface of the repair, not the entire piece of metal. Go to their site and watch all the videos. Youll see what I mean. http://www.aluminumrepair.com

 

[Nessism]

I bought some Aladdin 3 in 1. To heat the cylinder I tried propane and when that didn't work, I broke out he oxy-acc torch. Used a small tip, not sure if I should have another go with a larger tip. Honestly though, I think this stuff works well but the metal must be fairly thin, at least thin enough so that you can get it up to 700F fairly easily.

 

[snowbeard]

I also have the HTS2000, pretty good stuff, but it's hard to keep that 700 mark on your part. I fixed a foot peg mount and it held well enough, but then got new ones and never really tried it.

the guy that sells it (manufacturer) says use a rosebud torch tip, nice round flame to really keep the whole area heated. The videos have some awesome uses, build up a whole new motormount bracket and drill and tap it, then they hammered it to break it off and the engine case broke first!

kind of expensive the couple years back when a buddy and i split a couple pounds, but I'm on their list now and supposedly can get a "deal" on my next order.

 

[Planecrazy]

I recently bought some of that stuff in an attempt to repair some broken cylinder fins. The cylinder acted like a massive heat sink, which it is, so the repair area would not come up to temperature enough to get the rod to melt. That video shows them repairing some pretty thin material, which is easy to heat and bring up to temperature. Not saying this stuff is bad, only that it works best on thin materials where it's easy to heat.

Daveo used Allumalloy to successfully repair some broken fins on his GS. one of the links above contains some back and forth I had with him in 2003. At that time his repair was three years old and not only held up well but looks phenomenal! Unfortunately the pics are no longer hosted so don't show up, but he stressed (as you can read if you check out the thread) the prep (as always, important) and use of a stainless steel brush to eliminate ferrous impurities which can prevent proper adhesion.

HTS-2000 is supposed to be much more forgiving compared to the first generation stuff, and I still have both Allumalloy and HTS-2000. Personally I'd suggest MAPP gas in place of propane, because it's just a bit easier to hit and maintain the required temperature when using the stuff.

Check out the HTS-2000 website for some good video on what it's capable of...

Regards,

 

[mighty13d]

This stuff works pretty good from everything i've seen. I thankfully have access to, mig, stick and tig welders. I just have to buy the rod/wire.

 

[Guest]

No motorcycle app experience, but I did fabricate some bezels of 3/4 extrusion successfully using what I assume was "1st gen" sticks. A repair in the side of a canoe didn't work, as I couldn't get enough heat into it.

 

[crag antler]

Have you tried McMaster Carr for supplies?www.mcmaster.com
I have used them extensively in the past and always quite satisfied with the service and quality of parts and stock.

 

[posplayr]

Field report update

Field report update

I got some HTS-2000 off ebay. Seems to be pretty good stuff. The main issue as mentioned earlier is getting sufficient heat into the part. Small parts (like a fork clamp of brake lever) can be heated using Propane or Mapp gas enough to get the rod to flow. Bigger stuff need a gas with oxygen to bump up the heat.

I seem to have good result using oxy acetylene brazing fender mounts to my GSXR forks (there are pretty substantial parts).

I had no luck with Mapp gas getting enough heat into a set of carburetors to brae on a lump to hold the float rod. I clean and cleaned but the material just doesn't seem to want to bond. Maybe needs more heat.

Stuff is good you just need plenty of heat. I did not want to heli-arc my forks and damage the inside bore finish. The brazing left it intact

 

[DMorris]

Could the heating problem be avoided on something like a cylinder fin by first raising the overall temp of the part in an oven?

I do some jewelery making and when fusing silver, I found that I get the most control of the process by placing the pieces I want to fuse on a hotplate and then directing my torch in the area I want to fuse.

This would require that everything be set-up and ready to go the moment the part comes out of the oven but it should reduce some of the heat sinking that seems to be the problem.

 

[Hammered]

Could the heating problem be avoided on something like a cylinder fin by first raising the overall temp of the part in an oven?

I do some jewelery making and when fusing silver, I found that I get the most control of the process by placing the pieces I want to fuse on a hotplate and then directing my torch in the area I want to fuse.

This would require that everything be set-up and ready to go the moment the part comes out of the oven but it should reduce some of the heat sinking that seems to be the problem.

It could, but Ive found using a heat blocker works best. I use this stuff. It helps for what I do, reduce warpage. http://www.alvinproducts.com/Products/Products.asp?ID=7 It will also aid in keeping the heat right where youre putting it.

 

[DMorris]

But doesn't this material work by sinking heat away and dissipating it to the atmosphere so as to keep the surrounding material cooler?

What I was thinking was that if there was too much of a thermal gradient across the part, it becomes difficult to raise the temp in the work zone in a controlled way.

By bringing the temp of the whole part to a temp closer to the working temp of the bonding material, it becomes easier the add just enough heat in the work area to get the bonding material to flow.

 

[Hammered]

But doesn't this material work by sinking heat away and dissipating it to the atmosphere so as to keep the surrounding material cooler?

What I was thinking was that if there was too much of a thermal gradient across the part, it becomes difficult to raise the temp in the work zone in a controlled way.

By bringing the temp of the whole part to a temp closer to the working temp of the bonding material, it becomes easier the add just enough heat in the work area to get the bonding material to flow.

From all the time Ive used heat sink material, what Ive found it does best is to localize the heat. Aluminum has that great property of sinking away heat by transmitting it throughout the whole piece. This doesnt allow that transfer to happen as fast. Thus keeping the heat where youre trying to apply it. Like I said, I use it on Jon Boats to keep the rest of the area from warping. you can put your hand in the metal outside the ring of putty but not on the inside of it. Theres a huge difference in the heat on one side to the other. And as far as rebuilding fins, a piece of Stainless as a plate to allow the HTS to fllow onto works great. I use this method when filling a hole too large to span with just the filler.

 

[DMorris]

OK, Hammered. I'll bow to your experience but I'm still scratching my head about the physics.

Thanks for the info though!

Best, Don

 

[tkent02]

Welders have been preheating metals forever, it works well.