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Engine sezied Please help!

  • Thread starter Thread starter c&c
  • Start date Start date
C

c&c

Guest
Running on idle at 1100rpm it made a very short squeak then stopped .:mad:
It would not turn, it was jam'd.

2014-08-11 - Post updates to reflect current findings.
Changed the chain tensioner gasket,
I did not have to adjust the chain tensioner when I reinstalled it. The p.o. had locked the tension in place.:confused:
Removed the head.
The pistons turn freely.
The crank shaft sprocket has all it's teeth.
The timing chain wear is 155.56. Max service is 157.8
The chain guide are not damaged.
All the valves are seated properly.
Reinstalled.
Turned the engine 3 rotations and on the 4th it jam'd again.
Removed the head.
Turned cams by hand.
The intake cam was hard to turn.
Removed the valves.
Found a fresh gouge on on of the stems.
The direction of the gouge indicates that the metal chip bypasses the seal. maybe the po installed new valve seals and it was already inside the seal. )
Put it back in the guide and there is resistance, The gouge ridge was as high as a hair. Yes I have very good eye sight.
Flattened the gouge and it moves with out resistance in guide. ( No I did not sand the stem )
All valves stems are strait.

I have now removed the cylinder head out of the equation. I will know for for sure, if it was the valve, this week end when I reinstall everything.
If it still jams then I will have to disassemble more.
The questions I have to answer are where did that metal chip come from, why did my oil filter not capture it and are there more metal chips at the bottom of the pan.

I'll keep you posted.

I would like to thank all that have posted. It was very helpful.
Thank you!

100_1922.jpg
 
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Sorry to say, but if you didn't properly reset the tensioner you may have some broken parts inside the engine. Take the valve cover and start looking there, any number of things may have broke or locked up. terrylee
 
Did you reset the tensioner and set the lock screw before reinstalling the tensioner? Did you release the set screw once the tensioner was installed? Did you double check the cam timing after the tensioner was installed?
 
On a more positive note, these engine are pretty robust, there's also a good chance your engine is fine. You'll need to remove the valve cover though and check things out. Take off the cam tensioner and make sure it is ok, then remove the valve cover and check to make sure nothing looks broken (cam chain, gears, anything else you can see), while the tensioner is off and you have the valve cover off take off your ignition cover and 'gently' turn the the crank a bit to see if it will rotate.
 
did you adjust the valves?
if so and you didn't really tighten the jam nuts good...one or more could have came loose and well you know..jammed the engine.
 
I hope I'm wrong but taken together your symptoms sound like a cam bearing has picked up and seized either because oil is not getting up there or what is getting there is contaminated with petrol.
The bike has been dying at idle with 'steam' out the top. After cool down it restarts and the cycle repeats. Eventually it develops a squeak and jams. Petcock is only working correctly on prime.
See does the oil smell of fuel.
Did you use any of that RTV on the oil pressure switch or stator cover? It wouldn't take much to restrict the oil flow to the head.
 
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The bike has been dying at idle with 'steam' out the top. After cool down it restarts and the cycle repeats. Eventually it develops a squeak and jams.


Petcock is only working correctly on prime.
-I rebuilt the carbs this weekend. I have 2 issues with them.1-2 ok 2-3 ok but no matte what I do 2-3 can not get synced. but at about 3000rpm they are all syncronised.
-The carbs are now getting enough fuel from the tank. The vacuum issue has been resolved.

See does the oil smell of fuel.
- no it does not.

Did you use any of that RTV on the oil pressure switch or stator cover? It wouldn't take much to restrict the oil flow to the head.[/QUOTE]
- no I did not. I was tol not to fk around with this and use proper gaskets/O-rings and I did.


Did you reset the tensioner and set the lock screw before reinstalling the tensioner? Did you release the set screw once the tensioner was installed? Did you double check the cam timing after the tensioner was installed?
- No I did not.
- I will remove it, the valve cover, check and report back.

It wouldn't take much to restrict the oil flow to the head
Q - how does one unrestrict them or how does on verify if there is proper oil flow?
 
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c&c said:
The bike has been dying at idle with 'steam' out the top. After cool down it restarts and the cycle repeats. Eventually it develops a squeak and jams.
Click to expand...

Sounds like your crankcase is not venting quickly enough if at all. Is it steam that is escaping or is it combustion blow-by?
 
c&c said:
Did you reset the tensioner and set the lock screw before reinstalling the tensioner? Did you release the set screw once the tensioner was installed? Did you double check the cam timing after the tensioner was installed?
- No I did not.
- I will remove it, the valve cover, check and report back.
Click to expand...


When you removed the automatic tensioner the plunger extended fully. Similar to what would happen if the engine has a ton of miles and the chain elongated. Reinstalling the tensioner without resetting the plunger inward has put massive tension on the chain and associated chain guides. NOT GOOD.

The "steam" you mention out the valve cover breather is blow by gasses. This is normal to some extent, and a symptom of other issues, not an issue all it's own.

I'd fix the cam chain issue and then go from there. First things first.
 
Removed the valve cover
- Nothing is broken, no metal particles.

Removed the chain tensioner
- Timing chain moves the length of the tension.
- Chain is not damaged. No damaged teeth.
- I did see the crank sprocket and the chain is around it.
Note: when I re installed the chain tensioner I did not rev the engine past 4000k twice. I did not even have time to take it on the road.
This happend just before IO was going to take it on the road.

Manually rotate the crank.
- Removed the spark plugs, tried to rotate and it will not budge.
- Turn left or right, it will not budge.


What should I do now?
- Start removing the head and cylinder block?
- Put some penetration oil in all cylinder and check if I can unjam it?


If the cylinder is seized, then the oil is not flowing properly.
How does one test if there is proper oil flow?
I use Rotella T6, how long is this oil suppose to last?
 
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Not sure what to suggest but it doesn't seem likely to be an oiling problem.
 
IDK, maybe yank the cams out & verify the timimg chain isn't bunched up under the crank?
 
What he said! I had that happen to me once, looked like chain was on crank fine, but was bunch up where I couldn't see. Removed cams and just kept turning chain by hand till it came free. terrylee
 
This is how much slack there is in the chain when the tension is removed. ( see pic )
I also measured the chain and it`s 155.568mm and the max is 157.XX ( cant remember by heart )

Unless I am suppose to get more slack I think the chain is OK.
I also remember that I had no problem sticking the tensioner back in. I am sure the PO removed then tension, once bolted in, released the tension and tightened the screw and nut thus preventing the auto tightening feature. I think I put on 4000k on it since I got it.

DSC_0086.jpg

I put some penetration oil in the cylinders. an hour ago I`ll go see if it will budge.
 
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You can not turn the engine with the cam chain tensioner removed. The valves will hit the pistons.

At this point I'd remove the cams completely, along with the tensioner. As mentioned, hold the chain up with your hands and try to get the engine to rotate. The cam chain may be bunched up on the crank sprocket so use a flashlight and take a peek inside.
 
OK Grand Master. Removed the cams and it turned by hand. Maybe the penetration oil helped. now what the hell do I do.
HOw does one know if you have recoverd all the chain slack.
 
c&c said:
OK Grand Master. Removed the cams and it turned by hand. Maybe the penetration oil helped. now what the hell do I do.
HOw does one know if you have recoverd all the chain slack.
Click to expand...

Now reinstall the cams per the service manual instruction. Once that's done, wind up the cam chain tensioner and push in the plunger, set the lock screw, install the tensioner, release the lock screw 1/2 turn, then tighten the nut again. Hopefully you didn't bend any valves by trying to rotate the engine with the tensioner removed. Please tell us you didn't use the starter button to spin the engine over with the tensioner out. If you did, you bent valves.
 
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Nessism said:
Please tell us you didn't use the starter button to spin the engine over with the tensioner out. If you did, you bent valves.
Click to expand...
OK I did not. What I did was hit the start and did a quick jolt and moved less then 5 degre.
Then removed the cams, I got a 3ed hand to turn the engine counter clock using the stator hub thing nut to get all the slack possible and all turns without ticks dings or squeeks.

Any way I`ll put everything back together and see. I highly doute I bent valves. Cross my fingers toes and eyes.

just to make sure, the engien turns, looking at the ignition timing, clock wise right?
 
Correct, the engine turns clockwise when viewed from the ignition side

Tom made a good point (in his usual way)

Are you following any of the tutorials or the FSM when you work on your bike?
 
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