engine turns over won't start all checks made.

[Rockgs1000]

I have been reluctant to post this thread I have seen similar threads asking the same issue and have, I think I have anyway, tried them to fix mine. Ok here goes. rode the bike through a pouring rain had no issues I have pods on my carbs I shielded them the best I could from the rain. Got home no issues. The next day I cranked it right up about two seconds or so on the start button it came to life. and rode it around the yard when I parked it I reved the engine and notices a little white smoke out of the exhaust. I let it set for two days. went out to crank it to ride to work not thinking there would be any issues. I turned the power on and hit the start button. the engine turned over strong but never tried to actually hit. So that is how it is today four days later. So here is what I done, I took the plugs out, all had a white center porcelin and black ring on the threads. I cleaned the plugs and plan on getting new ones, checked fire on all plugs got fire. Checked voltage to coils 13.25. Gas checked petcock for proper operations by removing the fuel lin allowing the vacuum to draw the fuel from the tank, that works so getting gas, if I turn the engine over several time the plugs will be wet when I pull them, I checked compression on each cylinder, got 100-110 across the board open throttle on a cold engine, Checked my engine block ground I cleaned it and got a good ground I have changed all my bullet connectors to spade and done three relay mods: coils, headlight, and horn. All gauges are working correctly. one thing I notices is when I crank it the oil pressure light doesn't go out like it did before but that may be just me seeing things since it started a few seconds after pushing the start button. I checked time on the Dyna ignition to TDC on the cylinders, The marks line up correctly for the spark to ignite the plug. So there is where I am at. I am at a loss to where to look some ghost has a hold of my bike and won't let go. When I say it won't crank I mean run on its own power with the ignition of gas and spark, what is is doing is turning over crank going around and around but never actually attempting to run, no smoke from pipe no back fire no hint of wanting to start and run. any thoughts for me to try would be nice. thanks Rocky

 

[chuck hahn]

Souinds like a sudden flooding of the cylinders to me. I would tap on all the float bowls to see if stuck floats.

Then I would try to start as normal. Choke and DO NOT touch the throttle. just choke and crank.

The white smoke probably was unburnt fuel steaming put the exhaust. white water vapor looking smoke is indicitive of a severe over fueling of a cylinder..or several. thus, once you shut off the bike..its DOA.

 

[Rockgs1000]

oh one more thing my number four carbs choke is sticking, hard to tilt the choke lever up. got to take that apart to see why it is hard to lift.

 

[chuck hahn]

Well if theres an evident problem there, what I would do is pull the carbs and recheck it all. Hold the carbs upright with the bowls off and physically move the floats up and down and SEE that the needles rise and fall ALL THE WAY. Smoothly and they never loose contact with the float tang as they are moving..

recheck the float hts too while they are open..cant hurt.

 

[Rockgs1000]

Ok will do thanks

 

[Rockgs1000]

Ok got the carbs off and cleaned again. Not sure the carb was pulling vacuum well on the Percock to get the fuel to fill the carbs. So here is my issue and I am pretty sure I am right. I am just looking for reassurance. I got the bike to start and run and man I got a skeeter fogger now. I ran it for a little bit and saw oil coming around the manifold and and exhaust connection. So took the header off and the number Two cylinder was wet with oil on the exhaust valve stem and header orfise..... So I assume I now need to rebuild the top end of my engine. Am I right?

 

[chuck hahn]

Unless the oil is too full..in which case its squeezing past the rings and into the cylinders. Got oily leaks around the pipes where they go into the head?


I would recheck the oil isnt full of gas AGAIN ( yeah i know you have checked the petcock ). There must be a reason if the crankcase is filling up too much.

Never check and fill the oil on the side stand..if you are your wrong and thats probably the problem. Always fill it with the bike standing straight up or on the center stand. If you dont have a center stand, have the wfie or someone hold it up for you.

 

[Rockgs1000]

I will do that, the only cylinder getting wet on the header where the pipes go in is the number 2 the other three are dry .

 

[chuck hahn]

Reverify the oil is at the proper level and no gassy smell..with the bike straight up somehow.

I that is ok, then i would suggest that you do a warmed up compression check and compare that cylinder with the others. If they are all good and that cylinder is comparable to the rest, then the next thing I would go for is a blown valve stem seal.

When you do the compression check, pull all the plug wires ( identify them as you pull them with some tape or whatever ) and twist the throttle full open and crank it aver till the needle reaches its max readings per cylinder. Probably 3 or 4 compression strokes will max out the dial.

 

[Guest]

Your petcock is bad. Its pulling gas into #2 carb & filling up the crankcase with gas. That is not oil your seeing, that is oily substance that all the extra gas is cleaning out of everywhere. Is it blowing "smoke" out the left side?Same thing happened to my son's bike, we changed oil 3 times before we figured it out and prepared for top end rebuild. Take that tank off...hook up an auxillary tank, plug #2 vacuum line and start it up. Does the fog go away? Is number two cylinder getting hot again?

 

[Guest]

It will take awhile before the gas clears itself

 

[Rockgs1000]

thanks chuck for verifying something i just thought about a few days ago. I put this project down when i got the bad thought of rebuilding the top end, not the fact i cant do it i can just dishearting. so here i am with it back on my mind pretty hard ready to get it going again. I just recently thought about the oil coming from the top end if it is oil. when i took the header off the exhaust stem on the number two exhaust valve was wet with oil as well as the exhaust port and header end that goes into the head. I have checked the oil for the smell of gas and being over filled neither has occured. the compression test cold i got was right around 100-110 per cylinder using the throttle twisted all the way open for each test of the cylinders. i will reattach the header and start it up then do a warmed engine compression test.

Nejeff- thanks for the imput. i removed the vaccum line once i got the bike to start and attempted to suck fuel through the line to see if the petcock was back feeding fuel into the carb from the petcock. got no fuel out of the vaccum line.

 

[Big T]

Your petcock is bad. Its pulling gas into #2 carb & filling up the crankcase with gas. That is not oil your seeing, that is oily substance that all the extra gas is cleaning out of everywhere. Is it blowing "smoke" out the left side?Same thing happened to my son's bike, we changed oil 3 times before we figured it out and prepared for top end rebuild. Take that tank off...hook up an auxillary tank, plug #2 vacuum line and start it up. Does the fog go away? Is number two cylinder getting hot again?

Sorry, but you're wrong

VM carbs get vacuum from #3, not #2

There's a really good chance that your valve cover gasket is leaking and running down onto the #2 pipe. Check closely for that as the leak can come from the back. If it is coming from the exhaust valve, you can replace the valve stem seal without tearing down the engine

 

[Rockgs1000]

Thanks Big T I checked that as well as the smoke is coming oil the tail pipe of the exhaust not at the head. When I removed the header the number 2 pipe where it goes into the head had a growing ring of oil . Kinda hard to describe that. But it looked wet where the other three were dry. Took the header off and the valve stem and valve head had oil on them

 

[earlfor]

Checked voltage to coils 13.25.

How could there be 13.25v from the battery to the coils? A 12v battery will not hold 13.25v.

I checked time on the Dyna ignition to TDC on the cylinders, The marks line up correctly for the spark to ignite the plug.

I hope you don't mean that you have the ignition timed to the TDC mark.
For ignition timing for the #1 cylinder, the timing mark is the |
in the F | 1 -4. The TDC mark is the mark preceeding (to the left of) the the F. In the sequence, | F | 1-4, the TDC mark is the first (far left) mark.

 

[Rockgs1000]

I did not change the timing of the dyno it is on the second mark though not one before the F . I have run this thing for nearly 400 miles and then this happened. So the timing should still be correct

 

[Rockgs1000]

Got the bike back running today. Cranks up on first push of the start button. It runs great at idle I have to fix a return spring problem before ride it. Once the motor runs for say two montes at idle the header starts smoking and smoke comes from the tail pipe and back fires. It is burning oil as apparent from the sight glass.

Going to warm motor and check compression tomorrow

 

[Guest]

thanks chuck for verifying something i just thought about a few days ago. I put this project down when i got the bad thought of rebuilding the top end, not the fact i cant do it i can just dishearting. so here i am with it back on my mind pretty hard ready to get it going again. I just recently thought about the oil coming from the top end if it is oil. when i took the header off the exhaust stem on the number two exhaust valve was wet with oil as well as the exhaust port and header end that goes into the head. I have checked the oil for the smell of gas and being over filled neither has occured. the compression test cold i got was right around 100-110 per cylinder using the throttle twisted all the way open for each test of the cylinders. i will reattach the header and start it up then do a warmed engine compression test.

Nejeff- thanks for the imput. i removed the vaccum line once i got the bike to start and attempted to suck fuel through the line to see if the petcock was back feeding fuel into the carb from the petcock. got no fuel out of the vaccum line.

Just read all of this thread , You said you rebuilt the top end. Did you rebuild it or just regasket it ? As you state you only have 100-110 per cylinder? That sounds awfully low for a newly rebuilt top end. My 1000 is 150-160 and was still original and not ran in 22 years when I had got it. I would check my valve clearances again, and the oil on the valve stem sounds like a seal just run the bike for a while and it should clear up once it runs a while. It may take some to burn what is in the exhaust out. My 1000 puffs on start up as it needs valve seals. But it only smokes on start up.

 

[Rockgs1000]

No I haven't rebuilt the top end I am asking if I need to. I believe my oil leak or bypass is coming from my valve stem seals and not bein forced past my rings on compression. I think I have good compression for this old a bike and it cranks and runs on first press of the start button can't let off the button fast enough when it cranks. This is the reason I think it is the valve stem seals and the fact when I removed my header when it first occurred I seen the number 2 exhaust valve had oil on the stem