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Epoxy as finish coat

  • Thread starter Thread starter beergood
  • Start date Start date
B

beergood

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Background: A couple friends just opened a bar. In the process if renovating it, they came up with the idea of gluing playing cards and casino chips to the bar. Then they layered an epoxy resin over everything. The result is a really smooth, super glossy, ultra hard bar surface that looks pretty great. They poured it on pretty thick (1/8" - 1/4").

I wasn't there when they were doing it, and sadly, I don't remember the name of the stuff (although I can get that). I do remember that it cost over $100 a gallon. My buddy said that it self levels really nicely, and sets up pretty quickly (less that 24 hours). He said that it is actually designed to be layed down pretty thin, the thickness that they used was actually getting to the prescribed limit. It is supposed to be pretty durable, and if it gets damaged you are supposed to be able to sand it down and fill it in.

I am thinking about using it instead of a traditional clearcoat.

These are some of my thoughts/worries:

  • It was developed for naval use, so it should be able to take all kinds of weather.
  • I can probably apply it over a rattle can job and achieve a pretty sweet and deep finish.
  • It should be able to stand up to chemicals like gas (I think I am going to test this on their bar with some lighter fluid).
  • Since I won't be applying it in anything like the thicknesses my buddies used, I should be able to get by with well under a gallon
  • How hard will it be to get that stuff off later if I change my mind
So, anyone have any experience with this kind of thing? Any thoughts or concerns?

Thanks in advance.
 
Hey beergood, *I* personally have never done it, but have watched it done. At my work all of our table tops and our bar top is coated with epoxy resin, and i can find out exactly what the steps and precautions are for you.. I do know that the air needs to be damn near still, all dust and particulates need to be kept out of the air as much as possible. They pour it on and spread, and use a torch to smooth it out. Again give me a day and i'll find out for ya.
 
Its what all surfboard manufacturers put over paint on boards to protect them. Keep in mind that most boards are just styrofoam and a balsa rib and epoxy coating. So its light,durable, and flexible.
 
Well we were't using a clear epoxy but I've worked with an epoxy before. A word of caution. Cover whatever you absolutely don't want to get epoxy on. This is including hands and skin. Its absolutely brutal to take off. And I can atest to how strong it is. We painted the tongue of a mobile home with some black epoxy and as a strenght test we attacked it with a hammer. NOTHING the hammer didn't phase the epoxy at all. Durable stuff for sure
 
It is most likely the West System epoxy which is designed for boat building application....specifically wooden boats. It has excellent flow characteristics as it is meant to penetrate and bond with the wooden substructure. It can be thickened with additives but it will then lose its "clear" finish. It is somewhat flexible but all epoxies become brittle over time and can crack. Its really not designed for application as a clearcoat finish in an automotive setting but could be used as a resin in structural applications ( i.e. gas tanks, bags, custom seats, fenders etc).

I think you will find it difficult to apply to curved surfaces as it is quite liquid and runs fairly easily even when thickened. I don't think it would be any better witha spray application but never having seen that I couldn't say.

I think for clearcoating a tank or frame you should stick with a urethane based product ( 2 part auto clearcoat). It is a flexible finish and is formulated for spray application. Easier to apply and control in my mind.

If you do go ahead please let us know how it goes. Always interested to learn new things.

Cheers,
Spyug.
 
It isn't my intention to spray the stuff, if I had a spray gun I would definitely go with a traditional clear coat. This was sort of me spitballing on a way to get a good, strong, glossy finish without one.

If I use it, I was planning on brushing on several thin coats. If I run into any surface texture problems I figure I will try to buff them out.

The durability over time is a concern. I don't want to end up with that nice "antique" crazed finish.

Thanks for the thoughts.
 
The playing cards will be cool, won't the poker chips be too lumpy??
The epoxy should resist fuel, model airplane guys use epoxy thinned with alchohol to fuel proof engine areas on balsa models, that fuel is much hotter than ours. JB Weld is epoxy and is permanent in gasoline...
You might try those high density foam rollers instead of a brush. Should be easier to get it smooth.

I think a thinner coat would be better than a thick one, would stay more flexible.

Not sure how much of a shine it would give. Don't those bars and tables have kind of a dull sheen?
 
There aren't that many chips, and they are spaced out every few square feet or so. The thickness of the epoxy is about as thick as the chips. Some rise a little above the surface, but it isn't terrible or all that noticeable. If anything, it gives the surface some character. And it definitely has a high gloss sheen. All the cards and chips come from different casinos. It is actually really cool looking, and has been getting a lot of praise.

Another bar owned by some different friends did something like this about ten years ago, but used a different kind of epoxy (cheaper) and it is a little yellow and dull.
 
There is more to a durable finish than the top coat, having a good stable primer coat, which adheres to the metal, is critical. I like to use a two part epoxy primer, like PPG DP epoxy, followed by a catalyzed urethane top coat, or base coat – clear coat if you prefer. Using rattle cans for your primer/color coats followed by some brushed on furniture epoxy doesn’t come close.

If you are just looking to add some chemical resistance to an otherwise rattle can paint job, you might want to give it a shot. Like Spyug, I’d be concern of runs on the vertical surfaces. Good luck with that. You should also test a sample panel of some sort before going at the entire tank – could save you some heartache if there are any chemical compatibility issues that surface.

Good luck.
 
Good thoughts. I know that this isn't going to be as good as doing it the proper way, I am just curious. And Part of what I like about playing with these older bikes is that I feel free to try unconventional techniques.

I would definitely test it before applying it to everything.
 
THE company is West System and the product is aptly named Bartop Finish. It is a 2 part epoxy resin designed for super thick application as a finish epoxy, not an adhesive type epoxy. Been around for 35 years. Part of my early chef apprenticeship in the late 70's at a place called Dockside VI in Cincy featured tables coated with this stuff, all with different nautical and "NEw England" themed articles encapsulated on the tabletops. Any good Woodworking store or boating store will have it.
 
The west systems didn't ring a bell, so I called my buddy and got the name of the stuff. It's called Mirror Coat. Here is a link to it

http://www.systemthree.com/p_mirror_coat.asp


web4140big.jpg
 
MAS Epoxies

MAS Epoxies

I used a lot of MAS epoxy over the summer on a boat on which I barrier-coated the hull. I did a lot of research before choosing which system to use, and the MAS epoxy is very low VOC, so no hasmat shipping charges, no amine blush to deal with between coats, and much cheaper than West System or System Three. their website is www.MASEpoxies.com. They make two consistencies; one is a thin-set resin which soaks well into gelcoat and glass to provide a good base coat for adhesion of subsequent coats (this is probably what you want to use for a bartop), or a thicker resin called FLAG (Filleting, Laminating, and Gluing) that is more suitable for building up thick coats, gluing, and making fillets (smooth joints). Probably worth looking at.
 
Alright, now we're on to something. I have in my garage a roll of thick,and I mean thick, glass cloth. It's a good 5 feet by 20 feet of glass cloth rough ebough weave so that 2 or three layers could make up the structural part of a seat pan, or a side cover, etc., as long as there was either gel coat or a finish weave 8 oz. cloth overlay for the appearance side of the item. If anyone needs some, let me know, cuz my dream of building a woodes boat has been in drydock for 5 years, and will be for another 5. Hate to see the stuff go to waste. as for epoxies for this type of usage, MAS is indeed superior in a lot of ways, low voc, no hazmat shipping, and good prices.
 
hey, bg, i too have used similar products for my kayak, i was just in my local woodcraft store and saw some projects finished with the mirrorcote product. beautiful. i dont think they would be to brittle, but they are painstaking to apply, as others have said, in regards to dust and safety. most of these companies have extensive help lines, for bumblers like me with lots of stupid questions, i am sure they could tell you everything you need to know. btw, love your vanity site, wish you wrote more.....

greg
 
I have had extensive time in boat restoration, both wood and fiberglass.

My two cents:

Regardless of what epoxy you use you will find these things
1. Epoxy is very suceptable to heat. If you want to soften/remove epoxy you heat it.

2. Epoxy will yellow with exposure to UV (sunlight). No epoxy manufacturer that I am aware of adds a UV protection package to the two part mix. I have worked for hours and hours laminating teak and ash for a sailboat tiller handle and coating it with epoxy (3 plus coats) and having it yellow after six months due to the degradation. You have to coat the epoxy with a clear coat that has a UV package of some kind to get it to stay. I use varnish on the wood to keep this from happening.

One thing you might try--Bristol Finish. They make a two part clear coat for marine applications that you can brush on. It is about $60.00 per quart and I'v tried it. It dries very hard and extremely glossy. The fumes will knock you out though. I tried to use it inside in the basement and it about drove me out.

Bottom line on the epoxy, save the time and effort you will end up diappointed.

Jim
 
That is some very good information.

I never thought about exposure to light. Thanks.

I am leaning towards not doing it, after a lot of the things I heard. Which is why I started this thread.

Thanks everyone.
 
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