Excellent choice for vintage racing IMO

[Buffalo Bill]

Not in my plans this year, but it's fun to analyze potential bikes for vintage racing.
Reading the AHRMA Hand book, looks like the 1981 GS650E has what it takes to win in Vintage Superbike Middleweight.
Saw this excellent clean bike on eBay too: 1981 Suzuki GS

Would have to be prepared similar to this GS750:

 

[GregT]

Don't know what the AHRMA capacity rules are for that class - but most of the world uses 600cc as the upper limit for middleweight or F2.
This is based on the period TTF2 capacity rules.

Friend of mine ran a 650M katana style bike here for several seasons. Pretty stock - std wheels brakes and carbs. I dialled the cams in and set up the stock CV carbs for him. Gave him a lot of fun even though he was against bigger bikes.

 

[Steve]

That is a very nice-looking bike. :encouragement:

I was not aware they were available in silver.

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[Carter Turk]

That is a very nice-looking bike. :encouragement:

I was not aware they were available in silver.

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Agree nice machine. What colors were you aware of?

 

[Steve]

All of the non-L 650s I have seen were either red or black.

Most of them were Gs, I don't remember any specifics about the Es.

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[Tom R]

Is that Joe Ryan?s old race bike? I?m not sure if he ever got it going quite right... if it is, I?m pretty sure that?s an sv650 front end on it.

 

[RichDesmond]

3 things:

First, the bike is a lot less important than you think. In club racing, especially vintage, the range in rider speed is vastly greater than the difference in bike potential. If a guy has a GS750, and you beat him on a GS1100, the odds are that you would still beat him on the 650. (and likely, on a 450 as well). Time spent combing the rulebook trying to find the "best" bike for a class is time totally wasted. Go to track, see what guys are running, ask them why and what they would recommend.

Second, it is much, much, much, much cheaper and easier to buy a bike that already been race prepped, as opposed to starting from scratch.

Third, if you do start from scratch, please don't cut up a beautiful example of a rare bike. Find a beater and work from that.

 

[Tom R]

Or you could run it in a production class... just remove the lights nicely, put them in a box, safety wire it, and strap some numbers on it. You can race in that class until they decide your too fast for it.

 

[GregT]

3 things:

First, the bike is a lot less important than you think. In club racing, especially vintage, the range in rider speed is vastly greater than the difference in bike potential. If a guy has a GS750, and you beat him on a GS1100, the odds are that you would still beat him on the 650. (and likely, on a 450 as well). Time spent combing the rulebook trying to find the "best" bike for a class is time totally wasted. Go to track, see what guys are running, ask them why and what they would recommend.

Second, it is much, much, much, much cheaper and easier to buy a bike that already been race prepped, as opposed to starting from scratch.

Third, if you do start from scratch, please don't cut up a beautiful example of a rare bike. Find a beater and work from that.

Very true. I'll go further and say that if you're serious about Vintage or Post-Classic racing start with a frame and engine.
Nearly everything else will be either thrown away or changed.

 

[Buffalo Bill]

Some difference of opinion, based on observation

Some difference of opinion, based on observation

Some things I disagree about and this is based on my own racing experiences, observations and interviews:
"Find a beater and work from that"
That's BS. Walk through the paddock, talk to owners and you'll learn all the 1st rank builders started with the best condition example they could find, and they still look A+ mint.
Buy a beater, no way! I tried that. It's probably a jinxed loser with a crash history, bent frame, jinxed engine too.
"Time spent combing the rulebook trying to find the "best" bike for a class is time totally wasted."
That's BS. Almost always there's a model vehicle that just has an unfair advantage. Been there, done that and felt the sting. Some vehicles are just engineered better, some are junk but they're in the same class.
"Finding a bike that's already race prepped."
Well that's very true, and maybe someday you'll find just the vehicle you're excited about. Or maybe you're a settler for the homely girl.
Again, maybe all your joy comes from engineering a winning vehicle.
This is all about finding excitement, getting your ego rocket launched. Not finding a bargain priced appliance.

 

[Nessism]

Only a fool would cut up a beautiful bike like that 650 to make a race bike. Samples that nice are RARE and should be preserved. Kiwi Canuck restored one like that and it looked beautiful when he was finished. I'd love to have one of those bikes. https://www.thegsresources.com/_for...2-Kiwi-Canuck-tries-his-Luck-with-a-Six-Fiddy

 

[Buffalo Bill]

Only a fool would cut up a beautiful bike like that 650 to make a race bike. Samples that nice are RARE and should be preserved. Kiwi Canuck restored one like that and it looked beautiful when he was finished. I'd love to have one of those bikes. https://www.thegsresources.com/_for...2-Kiwi-Canuck-tries-his-Luck-with-a-Six-Fiddy

Ed, you've never prepped and raced any motorized vehicle in your life, am I right?
I don't mean hooliganism, I mean on a track as a club member competing race after race for the season.

 

[RichDesmond]

I've built dozens of race bikes, both for myself and for others, and I'll stand by what I said.

One clarification. When I said "buy a beater", I was referring to a street bike as a starting point. Any street-to-track project I've done starts with taking the bike down to the frame, and I'm going to do that regardless of condition. The money saved on the original purchase buys a lot of race parts.
Of course, there's a limit to it, I don't buy total junk. The ideal is a low-mileage bike that's been low-sided.

Race bikes are a different story. There, buy a nice one that has the right parts on it and is properly sorted. Usually a lot cheaper than building yourself, and if your primary purpose is to race, rather than build, than that's the way to go.

Also a caveat on the "bike doesn't matter". That's less true in the slower classes. A guy on a 40hp bike might be able to use the extra power of a 50hp one. Once you get to 70-75hp, that largely stops, and most guys are just going to lap as fast as they are going to lap, regardless of bike. More power makes the bike harder to manage, offsetting the gains on the straight.

 

[Buffalo Bill]

Rich I'll agree with your clarification. If there is a decent bike with superficial damage and lower price, that makes sense.
A tweaked frame or shock damaged engine, walk away.
The adjective "beater" means junk to to me.

 

[Nessism]

Ed, you've never prepped and raced any motorized vehicle in your life, am I right?
I don't mean hooliganism, I mean on a track as a club member competing race after race for the season.

Correct. This has nothing to do with my comment though. I've know a number of guys that have raced and I helped them out from time to time wrenching (often after a crash). Race bikes lead a difficult life and taking a creampuff stock vintage bike and beating it to death on the track would be a damn shame in my view.

 

[bitzz]

I've built numerous vintage racers from street bikes and I agree that you should start with a "beater"... if you're going to be serious about the venture. Serious as in trying to win races.
If you're SERIOUSLY building a racer. all you're going to use of the original bike is the VIN, the frame and big chunks of the motor, everything else is going to be replaced and everything that is not replaced will be FULLY refurbished.
"Serious" vintage racers are in the minority of the field

 

[GregT]

Rich I'll agree with your clarification. If there is a decent bike with superficial damage and lower price, that makes sense.
A tweaked frame or shock damaged engine, walk away.
The adjective "beater" means junk to to me.

A tweaked frame shouldn't put you off. You're automatically going to check it for straight anyway - and straighten it - before bracing it....aren't you ?

Last year I went through a Hyabusa roadrace sidecar engine which had been crashed. Put sideways into a shipping container barrier when the brakes failed.
Crack test everything, check everything for straight. It'd hit so hard the crank thrust bearings had been indented. Bent selectors where the pilot had tried changing down...Now rebuilt and running well again. Don't give away a potentially good engine for the sake of possible crash damage.

 

[Buffalo Bill]

Still looks like a person would save a lot of work and worry, starting with a clean low mileage bike.
Certainly I would be saving a lot of money and time beginning with a bike like the GS650 I posted.

As for "cutting up a beautiful bike", can anybody say this Yamaha XJ550 Seca was uglied up for racing?
I took this photo in June 2016, and you can all see he earned the #1v number plate for winning the 2015 national championship.

 

[RichDesmond]

it's only nice because he hasn't crashed it yet.

 

[Nessism]

That Yamaha has been heavily modified. Things I can see are a different swingarm, exhaust system, different brake discs, brake lines, carbs, pods, shocks, seat, oil cooler added, rear set pegs, custom paint job, and (no doubt) many more that are not visible. A better question might be: what hasn't been modified? You think that motor hasn't been cracked open and optimized too? I seriously doubt it. So imagine buying the 650E and taking it completely apart and throwing away 2/3's of the parts. What's the point in that?