fitting barells over new rings

[Scott]

I am in the proccess of fitting new piston rings on my GSX 750 S1 Katana. I am hoping to fit the barells this weekend.

The manual recommends the use of ring compression clamps ( I dont have a set) but the shop that rebuilt my cylinder head said I should do it manually with small screw drivers.

I've never done this before and I don't want to mess it up. The manual only briefly mentions the proccess and make it sound realy easy( I suspect it's not)

1. what stage of the stroke should I set the pistons at?
2. Should they all be at the same hiegt?
3.Does anyone have any tips on making the job easier?

Any advice here would be welcome.

 

[NICK!]

Its best done with two people, I pulled wrenches with one guy for years and we could do this in a couple of minutes.

1. Make sure all gaskets and o rings needed in the base are in place, theres nothing worse that getting the cylinder on just to have to pull it right back off. Make sure your ring end gaps are properly placed.

2. Lay the cam chain in the bottom end in such a way that it is out of the way and won't bother you, if it won't stay out of the way after placing the cylinder on the studs thread the cam chain through and use a piece of wire wrapped around the frame or whatever to hold it up and out of the way.

3. Have two screwdrivers for each of the two people that are going to do the work. Lay them out within easy reach, long shank, small, straight blade carb adjusting type screwdrivers are best

4. Rotate the crank so that the two inner pistons are up at tdc (watch your cam chain, you don't want it getting jammed on the crank). Also watch your base gasket, they sometimes over lap the crankcase and a piston can damage it.

5. Slide the cylinder down over the studs, cock the pistons so that the piston/rings enter half way, your only going to be pushing on one side. Locate the ring and press it into the groove with one screwdriver or two if your on the gap, you can usually get away with one. Paying attention to how the gaps are laid out can make this easier.

6. You and your buddy are responsible for the piston on your side only, press the ring in until it compresses and gently convince the cylinder (pat it with your free hand) to slide down a little until the ring is held in place inside the cylinder/chamfer area. If you have a troublesome ring that needs two screwdrivers and both your hands have your buddy pat the cylinder down into place for you. You may have to straighten (uncock) the piston sometimes to get it to actually enter the cylinder.

7. go to the next ring on that piston, don't get too far ahead of your buddy as you don't want the cylinder to get cocked, it will stop moving and you'll have to pull one side up to get it level again so it will move down properly. The oil ring siderails usually dont need any help but watch them carefully when it comes time for those rings to enter the cylinder, they can sometimes need a little help from the screwdriver.

8. after the center pistons are in the cylinders, pull the cam chain taught so it doesn't bind and rotate the crank until the outside pistons start to enter the cylinder.

9. repeat the ring installation with the screwdrivers for the outside pistons, once all four sets of rings are in you and your buddy will slap the cylinder down with both hands like your playing the bongos.

10. done

This was the way I was taught to do it by my first master mechanic, we had the proper ring compressers but he claimed that you could break a ring with the compresser and not know it, if one breaks with the screwdrivers you see it right away. Don't worry, after hundreds of cylinder installations like this I have never broken a ring. I hope this is clear (yeah, right) so if you have questions fire away.

 

[Wingnut]

In my 750 book it suggests, and I've done it, to make 2 pieces of 3/4 wood that will lay on the block, with a cutout in the middle to go around the connecting rod. You put them around 2 connecting rods and rotate the crank untill the two pistons come down on them. Those two pistons will be held straight, the other two will be down in the block more. Then, with all the rings properly installed and the gaps spaced correct, lower the cyl. over the two wood held pistons until it gently rests on the top rings of the pistons, With a little screwdriver, preferably with duct tape over the end, poke the rings into the groves. As you poke them in the weight of the cyl will gradually move it down. Work around the top ring until it goes in, then go to the top ring of the other piston. Then both second rings etc. If the ring is hard to poke in don't force it, take some weight off by lifting the cyl. I did it alone but would be better with a helper. The end of the bore has a pretty good tapper to it and this helps a lot. When you get these two in rotate the crank to relieve the wood and then do the other two piston the same way. Don't forget the base gasket needs to go on first.

Go ahead, Ask me how I know! :lol:

 

[Jethro]

Large hose clamps work well for ring compressors, but I personally like the method that Wingnut described. The block helps big time. And most of the time you can squeeze the rings with your fingers to get them into the barrels.

 

[LW_Icarus]

I too hope to re assemble the top end of my engine tomorrow, and had read the hose clamp method, was planning on trying that with the block of wood.

Im trying to decide which is safer. is there any disadvantage to using hose clamps? Ive used a few different ring compressors on car engines, and have used screwdrivers on single cylinder engines, and it seems the well oiled clamps should make the job easy.

Edit-read the rationale behind not using ring compressors after post-makes sense.

note* the only reason I wouldn't try the first method, is I dont have any freinds that are allowed near internal engine components with sharp objects otherwise with some practice that definitely sounds like an excellent way, especially if you were doing a couple a week.

 

[NICK!]

Funny thing is that my Suzuki factory teacher back in '83 told us that on the Suzuki assembly line the cylinder installer didn't use anything, he just positioned the pistons a certain way and pushed the cylinder on! Fred said the guy let him try it and he ruined 3 sets of rings. :lol:

 

[LW_Icarus]

well what was the trick for getting the old gasket material off lol. whadda pain in the neck. keep eyeballing the roloc wheel but I know better. Ive got a snap on scraper and a box of razor blades, having to work in 2 hour shifts.

a couple hours to disassemble, a day of cleaning surfaces, and a couple hours back together

 

[Anonymous]

I did mine without the afore-mentioned tips, and used the hose clamp method. I broke one ring in the process, but I caught it at the time it happened. The trick is getting just enough tension on the clamp to secure it on the piston, but not so tight that it won't slide down as you lower the block. I think the hose-clamp idea would be the easier way if you're doing it alone, but I like Nikki's idea if you have a helper. and wingnut's wood-block would have made my solo job much easier. Regardless, patience IS a virtue if you're doing it yourself

 

[earlfor]

I also do it the way Wingnut describes. I dont even use small screwdrivers. I press the rings into place with my fingernails. I install the rings on the 2,3
pistons first. A little oil smeared into the base of the bore will help a lot.

Earl

Large hose clamps work well for ring compressors, but I personally like the method that Wingnut described. The block helps big time. And most of the time you can squeeze the rings with your fingers to get them into the barrels.

 

[Scott]

I''l get my mate to assist he's a mechanic and I'll cut some wooden blocks tommorow.

Thanks for the tips.

 

[NICK!]

well what was the trick for getting the old gasket material off lol. whadda pain in the neck. keep eyeballing the roloc wheel but I know better. Ive got a snap on scraper and a box of razor blades, having to work in 2 hour shifts.

a couple hours to disassemble, a day of cleaning surfaces, and a couple hours back together

The best thing we ever found was an X-Acto knife with the wide chisel blade used upside down and followed up with green Sctoch Bright and some solvent. The gaskets were updated and later versions were much easier to remove, if you have the original gaskets on there my heart goes out to you. Imagine when all those 1982 GS1100EZ's needed their cranks replaced and flat rate was 16 hours.....ugh. 8O

 

[vstan905]

Cut up beer cans make good rings compressors

 

[LW_Icarus]

The best thing we ever found was an X-Acto knife with the wide chisel blade used upside down and followed up with green Sctoch Bright and some solvent. The gaskets were updated and later versions were much easier to remove, if you have the original gaskets on there my heart goes out to you. Imagine when all those 1982 GS1100EZ's needed their cranks replaced and flat rate was 16 hours.....ugh. 8O

yup they are original, and I ended up using the razor blades to get the bulk of it off, then red scotchbrite pads and simple green to get the last of it off. its labor intensive, but I managed to get all of it cleaned without any damage.(not counting my sore hands)

why did those 1100's need their cranks replaced ? just curious, havent heard about that yet.

and beer can ring compressors? the tool thats fun to make! just wish I had a 6 cylinder lol. guess Ill just haveta make some spares honestly I think Im convinced to try it by hand, with some small screwdrivers nearby just in case.

 

[Hap Call]

If the cylinder has been overbored and new pistons are being put into service, it is a lot more difficult to get the rings in...the taper at the bottom of the cylinder is almost gone. I always use the hose clamp method, have a friend who is not yet well lube on beer (that comes after the cylinder is on the bike), and lots of patience. I've never broke a ring that way.

Hap

 

[NICK!]

why did those 1100's need their cranks replaced ? just curious, havent heard about that yet.

In the 1982 1100EZ the original cranks were not welded, almost all of them came back with tweaked cranks shortly after they were sold. I'm only aware of one single EZ that never had the crank changed, he rode a lot but never "beat" the bike. My shop had 17 lined up at one point, the shop where my buddy worked had 31 as the highest number of 11's waiting for the crank swap. The replacement cranks were welded everywhere except behind the primary gear, if you send a crank to Falicon they weld all the pins and the primary gear to the crank too. The flat rate was 16 hours, my first (I was fresh out of MMI at the time) took me 64 hours, my next 32 but I don't think I ever met anyone who could do it in 16. The really fast mechanics could do it in about 20. 1983 1100ED cranks were welded from the get go and also have the famous large taper for the charging rotor, it was always a challange to keep the dyno rotor from breaking loose in worked 1982's, it wasn't really a problem with the 83's, no where near as bad anyway.

 

[LW_Icarus]

pretty interesting. couldnt imagine getting a complete engine teardown and assembly done in 16 hours in the best circumstances, and Im not counting pulling the engine from the bike even

the automotive industry is similar, they give warranty times so low on some stuff you've exceeded it by the time ya get the rack set practically. 2 tenths? I can't find the damn car in 2 tenths!

 

[fgh]

Nick is obviously the god of GS service.

 

[LW_Icarus]

Hmm, sounds like he has good experience to me, I was just coming back to say that my top end is now together, and the insight into what might need done from this thread helped me not be at all suprised by what was going on.

I used the clamp/wood block method for the inner pistons, but my clamps sucked, the liners pushed em down before the ring entered the taper- scratch the clamps.

at that point I used my fingers and a jewelers screwdriver to persuade the rings to slip quietly into their grooves, and the weight of the barrels slowly eased em into the bore.

inner two done, slipped out the wood blocks and moved assembly a little to raise outer pistons, and at that point I just used my fingers, lined up the pistons and one by one pinched the rings in.

two people coulda had it done in a couple minutes, probably took me 15 minutes to get all 4 sets in, and the cylinders settled on the block. I took my time and it went easily.

thanks all you guys for your input, I think I considered all of it before actually doing this.best part is it wasnt even my question initially

 

[NICK!]

Nick is obviously the god of GS service.

If you wish to think of me as such, I have no objection. :lol:

 

[Guy]

When I bored out my thou' there were no tapers left on the liners. I had no option but to fit the pistons to the block on the bench (engine was still in the frame), and then lower the whole block onto the studs and then fit the gudgeon pins and circlips. I was told it couldn't be done this way, but it can....and by one person, but wasn't fun, I spent a whole evening lying on the workshop floor and my nerves were in shreds by the end.