Flange bolts, any tips?

[exzachtly1]

those are all tools you will inevitably need anyway.

tools = investment

shop = flushing

I'm inclined to agree with you, but I'm just doubting my abilities on this one. Maybe just frustrated. Seems this is going to take lots of time too, which is one of thing I don't have a bunch of these days. I'm lucky if I get a few hours on a weekend to work on my bike... so something like this is stopping me from riding potentially for weeks. Based on my last experience trying to drill a broken cylinder head cover bolt I'm definitely not feeling good about it.

I could more easily spend the money on tools if I worked on multiple bikes, or knew I'd own more in the future, but the reality is that probably won't be the case. That's the only reason I brought up the shop idea.... I just want the dang bolts out, I'm more than happy to do the rest!

I guess I'm willing to get the map gas and give that a try on the last 3. Just don't want to break any more of them. But that will have to wait til Sunday.

 

[loud et]

Whelp, feeling fairly defeated now. Another bolt broken and 3 still on there that won't budge. So the count is 3 broken, 2 removed, 3 still on.

I didn't get the map gas because I didn't realize it would be $50 to purchase the gas + attachment. Figured I could make do with propane. Did many cycles of PB, heat, candle wax, tapping with a hammer, tried running the bike to get the engine hot. Used a shorter 1/4" socket driver as suggested.

The 3rd broken bolt is broken pretty close to the head, not flush but sticking out maybe 1mm or so.

At this point I don't want to mess with the last 3. Like many jobs of this nature, I'm finding myself in a position where I'm weighing the costs between just taking it somewhere vs. buying all the tools I'm gonna need to deal with this. The way I see it at this point is I will at least need:

Map gas for heating if I'm going to attempt the last 3 bolts
Dremel, if I need to slot the broken bolts
Drill bits if I need to drill out
Tap & die / Heli-coils for making new threads
etc...

figuring around a couple hundred bucks to do it the right way. For something I may only do once in my life.

What do you guys think... if I take it somewhere, is the better option to ride the bike in while it's still rideable (exhaust roughly attached still), or plan on just finishing the bolt mangling and taking the head off to go to a machine shop. What's the better option? I'm feeling like the last 3 bolts are a lost cause. I don't know why the two on #1 came off so easily and the rest are being so crappy...

Dude, I have all that stuff if you need it.
Mapp gas with hose, valve, tip, ready to use
Helicoil set, drill , tap, ready to go.
Dremel, drill bits, cutoff wheels...... just let me know....I will put a care package together for you and bring it over.
Did I also mention I am pretty slick at getting out stuck/broken fasteners?
Here if you need the help Dont hesitate!

 

[exzachtly1]

Dude, I have all that stuff if you need it.
Mapp gas with hose, valve, tip, ready to use
Helicoil set, drill , tap, ready to go.
Dremel, drill bits, cutoff wheels...... just let me know....I will put a care package together for you and bring it over.
Did I also mention I am pretty slick at getting out stuck/broken fasteners?
Here if you need the help Dont hesitate!

Dang generous of you man. I may take you up on this, I really feel that this situation is just a lack of appropriate tools and experience. So that would be awesome. PM about to be sent...

 

[ThrottleBack]

Push through and get it done without a shop, it's worth it in the end.

 

[ThrottleBack]

Dude, I have all that stuff if you need it.
Mapp gas with hose, valve, tip, ready to use
Helicoil set, drill , tap, ready to go.
Dremel, drill bits, cutoff wheels...... just let me know....I will put a care package together for you and bring it over.
Did I also mention I am pretty slick at getting out stuck/broken fasteners?
Here if you need the help Dont hesitate!

love this place!

OP, stock the beer

 

[exzachtly1]

love this place!

OP, stock the beer

Hah, last line of my PM was "what kind of beer do you like"

 

[loud et]

Got your pm Zach.....
I am busy this weekend also, so yes, next week after work some night is great.
Just give me a days notice.
We will do whatever it takes.
I actually don't drink so you are off the hook for buying beer. Lol

 

[londonboards]

You will get there in the end my friend. It took me nearly 3 weeks to sort it out:

See: My GS1100 G Blog - Exhaust Bolts Out!

This is what you are looking for:

If I had snapped any, I would feel the necessity to take the head off and have a machine shop put it all back in order. If you are not an engineer with $100s of equipment and years of experience, you could end up needing a completely new head if things go wrong.

Good luck. Don't let the beast get you down. You will win in the end.

Greetings

 

[Steve]

I actually don't drink so you are off the hook for buying beer. Lol

My answer to that question is "A&W".

.

 

[loud et]

My answer to that question is "A&W".

.

Good pick. But Barqs has bite.

 

[exzachtly1]

Thanks for the encouragement. I'm not opposed to taking the head out if it comes to that; we'll see where loud_et and I get after this week

The worst one (so far) is the single one that broke off flush; I think we probably have a good shot at the other 2 broken ones since they have quite a bit sticking out still.

Here is where two of them broke, on #4... the nearly flush one I think could still be slotted and driven out with a flat screw driver.

loud_et I will hit you up soon when I know a good night. I'll get you some Barq's!

 

[1980GS1000E]

Switching to studs instead of using bolts will prevent this from happening again.

 

[ThrottleBack]

Switching to studs instead of using bolts will prevent this from happening again.

I'm ashamed I did not suggest this

 

[Steve]

Good pick. But Barqs has bite.

Did you know it also has caffein?

Not sure, but that just might be the "bite".

.

 

[exzachtly1]

Switching to studs instead of using bolts will prevent this from happening again.

I have a set of studs on hand, ready to go in. They are the zinc plated steel ones from mcmaster; I didn't get stainless because they were quite a bit more expensive. Plan to use a good bit of anti-seize too.

Is the idea with studs that you can use a nut cracker to get the nut off if it ever becomes seized?? Meaning that theoretically the studs should never have to come out? Assuming the worst case scenario that the nut becomes seized, and/or the stud becomes seized inside the head, what is the course of action if they need removed in the future?

 

[ThrottleBack]

The idea is that you can remove the nut and leave the stud in. The reason bolts break is the threaded shaft gets locked up in there and you basically twist the bolt and break it on the weak spot. With a stud there is no stressing against it because you are not attempting to remove it.

you can cut the nut off if need be.

 

[Nessism]

A bit obvious, but just want to comment that it's critical to NOT over torque the bolts when you try to remove them or they will break off. You MUST develop a feel for how much force is allowable, otherwise you will just break them. Use a torque wrench if needed and limit the force to 12-13 ft-lbs. The max spec force is 10 ft-lbs, but the bolts should tolerate a little more before breaking.

Repeating myself here, but heat the bolt red hot and make sure there is lot of spray on the bolt and threads. Turn both ways, in and out. You need to get the bolt to break loose a little. Even if it does though, don't try and force the screw just yet.

Go easy and keep working the heat and spray oil.

When you guys go drill out any of those broken screws, make sure you center punch the old bolt and drill in the center. Use a small bit at first and work it back and forth as necessary to get the first hole centered before moving up in size. LH drill bits work great, since as you get up to the final bit size, the nub will likely spin right out.

Good luck.

 

[exzachtly1]

You MUST develop a feel for how much force is allowable, otherwise you will just break them. Use a torque wrench if needed and limit the force to 12-13 ft-lbs. The max spec force is 10 ft-lbs, but the bolts should tolerate a little more before breaking.

I think I have a very good feel for this now, after breaking 3 of them
When the 2 that came out started moving, it was very obvious as they made a creaking, snapping noise as the corrosion broke. With the broken ones, I could feel the metal twisting before they broke. Definitely seems like one of those things you have to learn from experience...

 

[Guest]

With the broken ones, I could feel the metal twisting before they broke. Definitely seems like one of those things you have to learn from experience...

Yes, a VERY large number of members here who have broken their exhaust bolts while trying to remove the exhaust header... I'm a charter member of that club .

 

[exzachtly1]

Anyone have experience with these types of stud removers?

http://www.autozone.com/autozone/ac...mover-set/_/N-264d?itemIdentifier=391371_0_0_

loud_et and I have not been able to get together yet, so I've been brain storming. On the final 3 bolts that still seem VERY stuck, I'm wondering if it would be faster / more effective to just cut the heads of the bolts off with a cutoff wheel and then use these stud remover tools. Seems to me that being able to get the exhaust and flanges out of the way might make it easier to access everything, and the stud remover would probably provide torque on a stronger part of the bolt closer to where the threads enter the head.

Any thoughts on this idea?