Free R/R Schematic and Parts Description

[Boondocks]

I'm actually amused at the level of devotion you guys are attaching to using old used parts....

Really guys ... it's OK with me if you go with the Honda units ... I contemplated it myself recently, but I much prefer going the superior route and doing it myself with more flexibility and better components.

To each his own...

Regards,

Believe me, the amusement is mutual. The only level of devotion that I see is to your beta testing of an unproven prototype to which you have already ascribed the highest attributes (superior route) before any long term testing can verify any part of these wishes. The "old used parts" are very inexpensive, of high quality, and have proved time and time again to be a straightforward and reliable solution. This isn't devotion, it's common sense recognizing a practical solution.

To each his own... Have fun with your soldering and sealing. For your next project you might consider reinventing the wheel. I'm sure that you could improve on it.:-D

 

[Planecrazy]

What's even funnier is that the person who initiated this thread on "open source" solutions has turned tail and completely backtracked on his own post! You also conveniently ignore the fact that your "time and time again" solution has had to be applied to my "time and time again" mention of people whose OEM units have failed. Somehow the quality of the parts you are so steadfastly defending seems a little hollow, although I grant that the Honda replacements are supposed to be quite good.

Also, you casually dismiss what you call an "unproven" prototype even though it's based on a known and solid design spec which imitates (with beefier components) what's already known to work properly ... you don't find this odd? You can't have it both ways...

Oh, and by the way ... if people were satisfied with simply going with what worked without ever trying to improve it or add features, we'd all still be driving Model T's now wouldn't we? And yet each year EVERY car manufacturer attempts to "reinvent the wheel" a little bit at a time.

One more thing, Philip ... for somebody who appears to be agreeing with Duane about how risky it is to use "off the shelf components" in replacement of the "holy grail" OEM units you certainly ARE taking a lot of risks by having modified your own bike in various ways ... have you tested all those relays to make sure they won't fail at a critical time and leave you without lights, horns, etc.? Did you used approved and tested methods of connecting the circuits? Are the wires you spec'd up to the task? What is their MTBF? Also, why do you have a digital voltmeter on your bike? Are you worried about your OEM electrical system? Oil cooler? Why reinvent what the factory designed for cooling itself -- didn't they get it right? Now obviously I'm being facetious, because I happen to like all the mods you did, but haven't you already proven my point for me by having tweaked your bike as much as you have? Why not replace the R/R with one more suited to a particular need?

Enough said...:roll:

 

[Boondocks]

Maybe the fact that no motorcyle manufacturer has ever added this type of capacitor to a battery ignition system for insurance against "stranding" should be a clue. Adding a capacitor is a solution in search of a problem.

Wrong, check your FACTS, European and British bikes have used them for years.
I Have two 1970 Triumph 500's that have a large capacitor in the circuit to run with a battery failure or when you take off the lights, they even tell you how to set it up in the owners manual. Triumph and Nortons did that a lot when they built a model that may be run off road without the battery and lights. By the way they also have a single zener diode that can handle about 22 amps with stock giant heat sink mounted under the headlight, And sometimes the would melt the battery right in to the battery box.

Glenn

Well, Glenn, I stand corrected! I should have said that onroad motorcycle manufacturers with reasonably reliable electical systems (not made by Lucas, known as "The Prince of Darkness") don't add capacitors. Capacitors might also be used on (mostly older) offroad bikes using a magneto ignition (no battery required) to avoid extra weight and prevent damaging a battery from offroad jouncing. I started riding on vintage Brit bikes and if the lights worked you were lucky. In fact, it seems like I worked on them more than rode them because something was always breaking. The Lucas electrical systems were notoriously poor and unreliable. I hope that the "large" capacitors that you mentioned were more reliable than the failure prone ignition capacitors used in Lucas magnetos, as seen at LUCAS MAGNETOS- THE MOST CURSED AND LEAST UNDERSTOOD PART OF A BRITISH MOTORCYCLE! With that type of bike/ignition, it's probably a good idea to carry extra capacitors, and extra everthing else that is portable.

The early Brit variants were fun bikes, but their overall quality was so poor that they couldn't compete when the Japanese marketed bikes that were/are as reliable as cars. Of course, the current situation has changed and all modern bikes are well engineered and dependable to be able to compete on the world market. Since you have a good handle on the facts, how many new Brit/European bikes are using magnetos with a large capacitor in the circuit and single zener diode that can handle about 22 amps with a stock giant heat sink? Clearly, the 1970 Triumph was not a paragon of electrical perfection.:-s

BTW, would you happen to be the same ehra that used to post at CDFreaks?

 

[ehra]

In reality Lucas battery ignition was not unreliable at all just points and regular coils. Mags are another story altogether. I am surprised that the problems these old Suzuki's are the same one that Lucas was cursed about, poor stators, regulators bad (zener) and batteries boiling over.
By the way the character of an old Brit bike is the whole experience of it all, like when the headlight fails is on the darkest part of the road next to the Clackamas river, the rear brake light switch breaks in half shorting everything out on the Freemont bridge, woo what fun.
Not me from that other site mine has to do with an r/c car race assn. that races out by Amity on Eola Hills rd, clay oval.
Want to go riding some time I am always up for something in your neck of the woods, I will ride my Suzuki because I don?t want an oily foot from a British twin but that is another story for another time.
Have a great day

Glenn

 

[Boondocks]

What's even funnier is that the person who initiated this thread on "open source" solutions has turned tail and completely backtracked on his own post! You also conveniently ignore the fact that your "time and time again" solution has had to be applied to my "time and time again" mention of people whose OEM units have failed. Somehow the quality of the parts you are so steadfastly defending seems a little hollow, although I grant that the Honda replacements are supposed to be quite good.

Also, you casually dismiss what you call an "unproven" prototype even though it's based on a known and solid design spec which imitates (with beefier components) what's already known to work properly ... you don't find this odd? You can't have it both ways...

Oh, and by the way ... if people were satisfied with simply going with what worked without ever trying to improve it or add features, we'd all still be driving Model T's now wouldn't we? And yet each year EVERY car manufacturer attempts to "reinvent the wheel" a little bit at a time.

One more thing, Philip ... for somebody who appears to be agreeing with Duane about how risky it is to use "off the shelf components" in replacement of the "holy grail" OEM units you certainly ARE taking a lot of risks by having modified your own bike in various ways ... have you tested all those relays to make sure they won't fail at a critical time and leave you without lights, horns, etc.? Did you used approved and tested methods of connecting the circuits? Are the wires you spec'd up to the task? What is their MTBF? Also, why do you have a digital voltmeter on your bike? Are you worried about your OEM electrical system? Oil cooler? Why reinvent what the factory designed for cooling itself -- didn't they get it right? Now obviously I'm being facetious, because I happen to like all the mods you did, but haven't you already proven my point for me by having tweaked your bike as much as you have? Why not replace the R/R with one more suited to a particular need?

Enough said...:roll:

It seems that you are doing your best to turn this into a ****ing match. You want to win an argument and won't quit until you win and somebody else loses. I'm getting tired of it, and would be inclined to just let it drop except that your argument is so unfounded and illogical that it is very easy to refute. So I will give one last reply to your provocations.

What's even funnier is that the person who initiated this thread on "open source" solutions has turned tail and completely backtracked on his own post!

Not nice. Now you're insulting me - but for what reason? Do you want me to lose my temper and attack you? Then my behavior would be equally silly, and manipulated by your ill will. I get the feeling that a war of words over the internet is your brand of manliness. If you knew me you wouldn't insult me to my face.

You may not understand motives such as mine when you are obsessed with winning. I started this thread to point out that there was a free schematic, parts list, and description for a home-built R/R of which I had posted a link last November. This was an alternative for those that didn't want to pay for it. Nothing more and nothing less. I never had any intent to build it. If I had, I could have done it in November. My own original R/R is working fine, and I already have a backup Honda Shindengen 8-wire R/R ready to drop in should I need it.

How does that relate to "What's even funnier is that the person who initiated this thread on "open source" solutions has turned tail and completely backtracked on his own post!" I can only guess that you mean that I have abandoned the free design. The fact is that I realize that different people like to do different things. Some like to experiment and build things on their own like bakalorz. I applaud this type of effort whether it is something that I would do myself or not, as long as no one tries to extract profit from forum members for their experiments. It's a fun, hobby type thing for many people and an opportunity to learn and experiment. I have built much more complicated devices myself. I participate in these threads not because I need the parts or want to build them, but to add information, ideas, and opinions for those who may have different motives. Sometimes my opinions are critical, but usually not.

You also conveniently ignore the fact that your "time and time again" solution has had to be applied to my "time and time again" mention of people whose OEM units have failed. Somehow the quality of the parts you are so steadfastly defending seems a little hollow, although I grant that the Honda replacements are supposed to be quite good.

Again, you are making an apples and oranges, out of context observation. Your (lack of) logic baffles me, unless you misread the context of my post due to a prejudiced focus. What does a solution (Honda Shindengen R/R) that solves a problem "time and time again" have to do with your mention of OEM units failing "time and time again"? As Meskito would say, "And what exactly does that have to do with the price of tea in China?" My point was, if you will read it again, that the Honda Shindengen R/R's had proven their economy and reliability as replacement parts. I don't understand whatever else you are reading into this, because there is nothing else.

Also, you casually dismiss what you call an "unproven" prototype even though it's based on a known and solid design spec which imitates (with beefier components) what's already known to work properly ... you don't find this odd? You can't have it both ways...

This is interesting. You admit that the design that you purchased imitates what you characterize as a known and solid design spec which is already known to work properly. This may be true if you have very loose standards. The file date of vreg.pdf is 9/27/05, so it has been on the internet for 9 months at most. The author of the file said "This circuit was tested out on a Suzuki GS400E motorcycle and seems to function fairly well." I have no more information, nor do you, of any more short term or longer term performance on any bike, much less the one that it was designed for. Don't get me wrong, I think that the design is competent, but it is not a rigorously tested and proven design at this point. So no, I don't find it odd to call the design you purchased an "unproven prototype". I don't differentiate between the designs to "have it both ways". Both designs are unproven prototypes with only short term experience.

One more thing, Philip ... for somebody who appears to be agreeing with Duane about how risky it is to use "off the shelf components"...

I don't know if you fashion yourself to be a psychic, but if so, you fail miserably. Duane has his thoughts and points, and I have mine. If I agree with Duane, I will say so and you won't have to continue to misinterpret my thoughts and points through your selective vision.

You will not see "Homebuilt R/R" on my signature line, or any other shunt regulator including Honda. The only reason that I would swap out a working R/R would be to improve performance, and that won't happen with a shunt regulator. I do know of a significant R/R improvement which I may implement, but you probably already know what it is since you think you know my thoughts.

One last thought. You may be the kit builder par excellence, I'll take your word for it. You consider yourself a perfectionist in soldering and kit assembly, going back to your teens. Given that, you should have the ability to minimize errors that inexperienced builders make and should be able to build a more reliable device as a result. What about the others without your skills who are paying for this plan thinking that it will automatically produce the superior product that you continue to advance? I suspect that there will be botched efforts, cold solder joints, overheated joints, etc. made by others that will compromise the design performance. What will you say to these people if this happens, since you have been a champion for the design and have undoubtedly influenced some to spend their money for the "superior" product? If it is not competently assembled, it may be a doorstop. In other words, it is not just about you being a soldering wizard, but about others as well. Maybe you should consider assembling units for those less gifted to ensure that it is done properly. Otherwise, some without your abilities may be disappointed, to say the least.

Finally, I'm getting sick of this subject and would like to move on to other things if possible. I'm hoping for a reasonable response so I don't have to reply. Your main skill in arguments seems to being in wearing out the other party to the point that they lose interest and quit.

 

[Planecrazy]

Philip,

Saw your post, but don't have time to properly respond now ... will do so tonight. Suffice it to say, I don't like the contentiousness of this thread either, but feel there is equal blame to share in how it got this way ... more later.

Regards,

 

[duaneage]

I'm actually amused at the level of devotion you guys are attaching to using old used parts. Duane's comments about component age are actually laughable, because he's comparing 10, 15, even 20+ year old used components to ANYTHING purchased today. As for "military spec," that's almost as funny, since quite often the ONLY difference between a military spec "anything" and it's civilian counterpart is the label on the box. Even "military spec" laptops (which are made by several well known manufacturers and contain the most sensitive parts you'll generally find on a battlefield) are often identical to consumer versions with the exception of being packaged in stronger more shock isolated cases!

When you figure out that your wrong, try posting again.

Mil-Spec includes a wider range of temperature. Instead of 0 - 40 C Mil-Spec runds from -20C - 140C. For some components it is even higher. Guess which standard you need for your "better" regulator? There are also vibration specifications too. Do you really know anything about electronic components?

Us "guys" are equally amazed at the level of devotion you have to a homebuilt RR that your willing to trust over a tried and true "old" design. Why not just buy a new bike if your concerned about the age of the electronics? The ignitors are pretty ancient, have someone design one of those with new parts.

 

[Planecrazy]

The point that you completely missed, Duane, is that modern consumer electronics often surpass "mil-spec" right out of the box. That's why several laptop companies can offer a "mil-spec" product that is electronically IDENTICAL to it's commercial version with the exception of the casing to protect unit from shock, etc.

Maybe you'll get off your "high horse" long enough to realize that customizing any given part of a bike doesn't require that you buy some other commercial alternative to what you already have. I have never rejected the idea of using commercial components, but I've also never rejected the idea that a custom built part can't be every bit as good or better than what's available commercially. It seems that you, on the other hand, reject that possibility outright without any acknowledgement that there are plenty of ways to successfully approach a given challenge.

That, in a nutshell, defines our differences, and for you or Philip or anyone else to criticize and insult those of us who might choose to go a different way when you have absolutely no idea what our backgrounds are is what causes threads like these to become contentious. If you read through all of my posts there is a common theme ... I've acknowledged both the fact that your choice is a reasonable option, as well as kept an open mind about custom alternatives. You and Philip, on the other hand, have berated even the idea of "doing it yourself," and consequently minimized the several legitimate points that you've brought up along the way. Just because it's not something you would do doesn't automatically make it the wrong choice for someone else. You guys would do well to remember that in the future.

Regards,

 

[duaneage]

i really don't care about your "opinions"

Do whatever you want. Are you trying to change my mind or just win a pi$$ing contest?

 

[Planecrazy]

i really don't care about your "opinions"

Do whatever you want. Are you trying to change my mind or just win a pi$$ing contest?

... Just trying to point out the obvious ... that I'm the one attempting to have a reasonable conversation with an open mind, while you are the one who has been continuously negative both in your opinions and in the manner with which you address other peoples views. I don't know what specifically you're calling "opinions," but since you have twice failed to acknowledge FACT regarding several recent mil-spec laptops I can only assume that you're simply trying to avoid acknowledging that you might just possibly be wrong about the state of modern electronic components ... you just can't stand to admit even the possibility that you might be wrong. Like I said before, this rigid, completely uncompromising attitude in even considering the possibilities marginalizes any valid points you might have (and which I gave plenty of reasonable consideration to).

Bottom line: At this point I don't put much stock in your "opinions" either, and I certainly WILL do whatever I want ... you feel free to do the same.

Signing off now from this now pointless thread ... Regards,

 

[Keith Winter]

Well, well,
And around and around it goes! As someone mentioned my name at the begining of this post, I'll throw in my .02 worth. As some of you know I also tried to bring a better R/R product to the site. And unlike some people on here I had no intention of trying to make a living from my system, I just wanted a better R/R than is available from any source out there. My finished design DOES NOT regulate by shunting the AC before the rectifier. It only use's 2 SCR's and they only shunt at 20 volts AC wasting very little of the power from the stator. The DC going to the battery is PURE DC, to those that know anything about this they will know the advantage of that. Near perfect voltage and current (.2 volt) regulation at the battery with light's on ect, from 1300 rpm and up, this is available because unlike the "stock type" AC shunt reg that starts to shunt the voltage at 14, mine doesn't have to till 20 volts AC. And NOTHING, I say again NOTHING can hurt the system. Take the battery out with the bike running and (I have demonstrated this to allot of biker's) short out the battery wire's, so what the reg just shut's down and save's the charging system. Heat was mentioned in this post, this too I have shown people, I use a propane torch and heat the R/R to allot higher than will ever be seen on a bike (unless the bike is on fire) so what, it just shut's down. Over load the bike with 10 million watt driving light's? So what, if to much load is placed on the system, it just shut's down till the overload is removed. It has fully adjustable output from about 3 volt and up, though I did not do this for the battery. I have it set at exactly what a 12 volt battery need's with proper voltage and current regulation, 13.8. I made it adjustable for testing only. My idea was to put a seperate circuit and plug in for other things that do not run on 12 volts, cell phones, small CD players, ect. Size of the unit is one problem that can't be fixed. It is bigger than a stock R/R, but I have it tucked down between the battery and the rear brake master cylinder, so it's not THAT big. You really don't have to encapsulate anything in epoxy or anything else to make it water proof or vibration proof either. Most marine VHF radio's (and allot of other stuff too) will work under water and are unaffected by banging, bouncing, and vibration far worse than anything on a bike will ever see, and the electronics in them are not encapsulated in a solid block of anything. The reason some things are encapsulated is because the maker of these product's do not want you to be able to get into them and find out that it was a part worth .03 cent's that failed. Why would anybody go buy a $60 or more replacement for a .03 cent part? I have a few dab's of high temp silicone holding thing's in place inside my reg and that's it, nothing has come loose. It has also been soaked with water many times, I spray it everytime I wash the bike just to see if it fails. The water just run's out the drain hole and away I go. I have been riding the bike with it on there testing it since I gave up on posting anything more about it on the site and have had no trouble at all. The battery maintains a perfect charge level at all time's and I have not even had to add water to it yet. That's quite a few thousand miles with no need to add water. My stock reg worked (and still does) just the way it is supposed to work and I could never had gone this long without watering the battery. I have just finished a more compact unit for my 115 horse Mercury outboard, they have no regulation at all, battery's don't last very long. So far it works just as good and testing will be in a marine environment. I have also cut the cost for materials in half from my original post. Maybe I will repost my idea's after some more testing, that should make all the original "idea basher's" out there happy!
Keith

 

[bakalorz]

Kieth,

I just went back and read your previous thread.
Very interesting.
How come you quit posting about it back then.
I would be interested in hearing more about it.

Also, at the end of that thread, you asked
" if there is anyone out there that has tried a different winding configuration, let us know!"
...
For what ever its worth, while I was searching around for info on regulators, one of the sites I found said: "given the same coils, connecting them as a delta rather than as a Y would allow them to produce more current, but less voltage."

 

[Nerobro]

For what ever its worth, while I was searching around for info on regulators, one of the sites I found said: "given the same coils, connecting them as a delta rather than as a Y would allow them to produce more current, but less voltage."

That's actually a problem. Right now we'll see 200v. That's much higher voltage than I'd like to see in this buisness. Heck I'd like to reduce the voltage and go with a buck/boost setup. With the current setup you're really limited to a "buck" setup, which is simpler. Or a linear reg setup... which might be interesting. A bank of linear regs is the simplest..... *tempted to order 20amps worth of 12v linear regs..*

 

[Keith Winter]

Hi,
This was the idea I had as well, rewind the stator in a "delta" configuration and produce, or at least have the ability to produce more current. There could how ever be some problems with this idea. In a AC system like we have on our bike's we need to have a large enough difference of potential (voltage) in order to cause enough current (amperage) to flow to meet the requirements of what we want out of the system. As the current demand goes up, turning on the headlights, using the turn signals, some like to crank up the demand with high output lights, ect, ect, the voltage output goes down. In a "delta" winding of our stator you would divide the stock voltage output by 1.7, or close to that. The stock "wye" winding will make about 15 - 16 volts AC at an idle with a very light or no load draw. This drops with the load just to run the bike and headlight to a point that will just maintain things at idle up to about 2000 rpm, depending on the reg you have and how good the windings are in the stator. With a "stock type" shunt regulator the voltage is shunted to ground at 14, or close to 14 anyway, and at slower rpm this won't make allot of current. In a "wye" winding you will make less voltage and less "ability" to make current flow. I am sure that at higher rpm's the "wye" would work perfect and give us a far easier output to manage, but at lower rpm's?? I have a friend with a old bike shop and I have been given a 18 pole stator and rotor that I am going to set up on the bench and spin at different rpm's to test these ouput's from both the wye and delta windings. It's a like new 3 phase stator so it should produce good stock type output. Ok, ok, I know what's next, "mangle a like new stator??" It's from a Kawasaki. Heat may also be a problem, and I have not tested this yet, with a delta winding as well. As the wire get's hot it increases in resistance and more resistance isn't good for current output. It's pretty hot inside the engine where the stator is and I don't know yet if this will cause a further voltage drop in the delta system. As I have the time, the testing will go on. The reason I quit posting my test's and results is that; a) I am really bad at explaining things in a way that make's any sense to most people, or anyone for that matter, b) I don't like to leave anybody out of the "loop" and I just didn't have the time to try and answer every question personaly, c) because of a) and b), I didn't have the patience to try and argue with people that are quite content with buying used Shindegies, Woo Phats, Binford 1300's, or any of the other stuff on E-Bay. Those out there that have a vested interest in the used reg market have their own idea's, and if they are happy with used stuff GREAT. But don't try to shoot down somebody else's idea's, especialy if you don't know, say, the difference between an alternator and a generator! I don't think this web site was set up for idea bashing, brow beating, or for a select few "guru's" that think they know everything. Those that are content with $4 used E-Bay stuff shouldn't be ****ing on those that are not, they can just go to another thread, can't they?? ANYWAY, before the thread I started way back then turned into a, "your an idiot" fest I just quit posting. To those that ARE interested, I am still testing and re-testing different system's that would work on our old machine's and one day I will tempt the wrath of the know it all "guru's" and post some more results, with pictures and schematics. Later.
Keith

 

[Rick]

Building a better mousetrap

Building a better mousetrap

Good going Keith...You tell em .....yes of course we can build it better ,we don't have the bean-counters looking over our shoulder to "keep" us in check.
My current project has me driving a 700ma load with a drive that can 'source' 20A.
____________________________________________Rick...........

 

[Nerobro]

Keith, you're right. You can't write. I'm not so hot myself.

My only arguement with what you're going is that watts is watts. No matter what the stator puts out, you're gonna get the same energy out of it. Be it 10amps at 10v or 20amps at 5v. When you convert it to what the bike can handle it's going to be the same 100w.

I only mention this becuase you didn't get around to explaining what the benifit of winding the stator for a lower voltage output would be. I don't think our stator/charging systems problems have much to do with the actuall physcial consturction of the alternator. Just the way it's handled.

Talk to me, I'm listening.

 

[Keith Winter]

Hey,
Yes Nerobro, your right, once again my lack of explanation ability's come out. This voltage drop with current demand work's out ok (as we know) with the stock wye stator winding and as you pointed out if we use a delta winding and produce more current than we need into the load resistance to run the bike, then the voltage will come up anyway. Like I said, I have to make the time to set up the stator/ rotor that I have been given on the bench and test the delta system in "real world" test's under different loads and rpm, then we will know for sure. Like you said Nerobro, the voltage division of 1.7 in a delta winding should be made up for by the multiplyied current gain of 1.7, though in all honesty I have never taken the time to find out what the load resistance of the bike really is! As this load resistance changes with battery condition and probably with the rpm/ ignition draw as well, I didn't bother to test it. If we DID know what the load resistance was, then by Ohms law we could calculate things better I quess. Oh well, I seem to have some kind of twisted interest in driving myself crazy testing this stuff, so I will get that stator running on the bench sooner or later.
Keith

 

[gremlin]

way to go Keith

i love the ideal of a better R/R. every one knows the bike makes want a cheep product that will just bearly work. thay get to save that penny and make a buck selling you spair parts.

I spent way to much riding time sorting out bad wireing on my old bike. even ended up adding gounding wires to help the system out.

it does not mater who makes a bike or auto thay will do short cuts that will end up a pain in the rear later on. i have had my fair shair of working the bugs out of every thing from bikes to big rigs. 99% of the time it was a bad grounding systems or under size wires.

one more time way to go Keith, for working your tail off for every one to over come the bad R/R problem.

for thoes who are giving you a pain on your new better system well. thay are passing up what could end up to be the fix all for the R/R problem.

 

[Keith Winter]

Hey gremlin,
Thank's for the pat on the back, though I'm not the only guy out there working on this old bike problem, I do like the positive comments! I don't really have the skill's at electronic's that Cletus does and what would take him 5 minutes to figure out probably would take me a week... but, I have been hard at this thing for quite a while now. Cletus is the real pro, I just tinker and test and hope I don't burn up to many parts! My reg has been in the bike and working perfect for maybe a year now??, I'm not sure really how long it's been, but it's still working fine. Maybe I have it right, that would be shocking! In any case, there are many different way's to tackle this problem, as many as there are opinion's on the subject. And Rick, if you are still following this thread, I would like to hear more about your system! I looked at building a better SCR shunt type reg at the start of this and after getting my hand's on the schematic's for the Kawasaki, Suzuki and Honda R/R's, I started out that way. There are 2 way's they work. Some regulate by triggering the SCR's with the AC and some, like the Honda's trigger the SCR's with a "sense" voltage from the battery or any other B+ from the bike. The SCR shunt type are all VERY simple and compact and have the least amount of part's, they also from a production point of view have the CHEAPEST part's as well. It was after looking at the schematic for a Honda CBX R/R that got me thinking about something maybe better. The CBX reg is totaly different than the other Honda reg's. I don't know why and my buddy that own's 2 CBX's had no clue either, but the reg on them is more like a linear regulator. In fact the way you test a CBX regulator is by hooking up 2- 12 volt battery's in series to get 24 volt's going to it and then you hook up a variable load machine to it and load it up! It was at that point that I went with the linear design. The CBX reg is complicated and has allot of pass transistors in it, the more load the more transistors get switched in to handle the output. Linear reg's are bigger though and they have small resistance's in the circuit's that cause's heating and this means increased heat sink size, BUT, on the plus side they do offer near perfect voltage AND current regulation regardless of load, and they have built in safe guards against damage. Short circuits, fried battery's, overload's and even heat have no effect on them, they just shut down till things are back to normal. This protect's the rectifier's and stator from damage as well. As long as the wires from the reg to the stator don't get shorted out, nothing you can think of is going to hurt the system. Unless maybe your bike is on fire, and then all is lost anyway! Anyway, thank's for the positive input and I will post some schematics in the near future.
Keith

 

[Nerobro]

Looks like hte CBX does about what I want to do. However... linear regs suck. they burn lots of energy when they regulate. ;-) We can do better. However linear regs are stupidly easy and cheap to setup. I could dig up the part numbers if you're interested. http://rocky.digikey.com/scripts/ProductInfo.dll?Site=US&V=497&M=L7812ABV That would cut the musterd if you could figure out how to keep the input voltage below the breakdown voltage of the linear reg. And used 15 or 20 of them in parallel. 1A each, and 81 cents each it's not a bad deal. Actually... going with the alternate stator winding method might make that work better. Though I'd go with the 15v version.

There are lots of ways of doing this ;-)