Front Turn Signal Ground

[1948man]

I've had a Vetter fairing on my 1983 1100GL from the start (about 10 yrs.) I took it off today and mounted a couple of aftermarket turn signals. I see from the wiring diagram, which I usually don't totally understand, there should be 2 wires and a black/white wire with a lug for ground. I can't find any trace of the original Black/white wire. If I affix a lug on a piece of wire and mount the lug in the usual place, what would I do with the other end of the new ground wire? Could I just bolt it to the frame? The wiring diagram shows it going off to a bunch of other areas but I guess those areas haven't had this wire for the last 10 yrs and are doing alright.

The aftermarket signals do have 2 wires and I think I have that figured out. They also use the correct bulbs (same as orig.)

 

[robertbarr]

The eye lug has a black/white wire that disappears into the headlight housing. There are swarms of ground wires lurking in there, as well as 3-way splitters for ground leads. Now, since you're removing a Vetter, you don't have a headlight assembly yet; you're adding a headlight or headlight housing of some sort, so you need to feed a good ground into there anyway.

Maybe folks here have an excess of these signal ground wires lying around? I'll have to have a look myself.

 

[1948man]

The eye lug has a black/white wire that disappears into the headlight housing. There are swarms of ground wires lurking in there, as well as 3-way splitters for ground leads. Now, since you're removing a Vetter, you don't have a headlight assembly yet; you're adding a headlight or headlight housing of some sort, so you need to feed a good ground into there anyway.

Maybe folks here have an excess of these signal ground wires lying around? I'll have to have a look myself.

Thanks Robert. When I put the Vetter on, in the first weeks I got the bike, I was able to just leave the original headlight bucket in place and it fit kind of behind and a little under the Vetter headlight so I have that original configuration. The previous owner had no front signals but still had the stems which were used to support a little "fly" windshield. There were no ground wires. Could I just rig up a wire with a lug and go from the signal stem bolt to the headlight ground wire and splice in? I just don't know what is necessary for the end of the ground wire away from the signal. Maybe even go to the battery? I'm sure I can find black/white wires in many places I could splice into.

 

[Gorminrider]

There's usually a dual-socket on a B/W wire for "bullet" connectors available for the original turn signals' grounds in the original headlight bucket. I'd look for it and find the correct sockets for any "wrong" wires now plugged into it.....but of course You CAN splice into any B/W wire if you must. But it's a shame. yet, it's ridiculous to consider a ground wire all the way to the battery when the frame is nearby.
Yes, you can use the mounting bolt as the ground for your turn signals and bring a wire from it to ground if your chosen signals are also grounded to it. This is as the originals were ...they had a hollow stem that passed through rubber bumpers for vibration to protect the incandescent element...

But Aftermarket signals often have their own ground wire so you might as well take that directly to a ground wire rather than bother with the bolt.

 

[1948man]

There's usually a dual-socket on a B/W wire for "bullet" connectors available for the original turn signals' grounds in the original headlight bucket. I'd look for it and find the correct sockets for any "wrong" wires now plugged into it.....but of course You CAN splice into any B/W wire if you must. But it's a shame. yet, it's ridiculous to consider a ground wire all the way to the battery when the frame is nearby.
Yes, you can use the mounting bolt as the ground for your turn signals and bring a wire from it to ground if your chosen signals are also grounded to it. This is as the originals were ...they had a hollow stem that passed through rubber bumpers for vibration to protect the incandescent element...

But Aftermarket signals often have their own ground wire so you might as well take that directly to a ground wire rather than bother with the bolt.

Thanks, I now see a b/w wire with female bullet in the headlight. I guess I could combine the 2 grounds into 1 male bullet and plug in there. One thing puzzles me. I bought these aftermarkets in about 2010 to fit this bike. They have two wires, red and black. I was thinking one wire was for signal and one wire for running lights and then you handle ground with the existing lug (which didn't exist in my case). I guessed black for running and red for signal. Are you saying the black is probably for ground and the red for signal and there is probably no running light function? Sorry, electrics mystify me.

 

[Gorminrider]

Speaking "incandescent":
...remove the lense. usually you can see if they have two elements or one. But if you want, remove the bulb. A single solder connection on the bulb means it's just a signal.The steel of the bulb's shell is ground.

By convention, black is ground and red is +.

If the bulbs have two elements (run and signal) it's unusual to colour the wires red and black but...unfortunately possible. If you remove them, the bulbs will also have two solder connections on the bottom of the bulb-again,the steel of the bulb's shell is ground.
The easiest way to decide. Re-insert the bulb in it's socket... find out which wire is run or signal by touching each to the battery...and grounding whatever attachment steel you can see to battery - or the motorcycle frame if the battery you are using is installed on the bike. The bright one is Turn signal.

That said,incandescent bulbs have no "polarity" required to function- the bulb will work if polarities are "backwards" but don't connect them on the motorcycle that way.

speaking led, the all the above applies ,though some signals may not have replaceable bulbs so the decision of whether dual function or single is easiest by connection experiment only.

 

[Gorminrider]

Sorry, electrics mystify me.

I forgive you. why? because "convention" confuses and is by no means stead fast.
For instance: stock replacements of turn signals in the 80s will have a single black wire and it is the "+" one, the hollow stem being ground. On Hondas, green wires are ground.

Yours, with red and black, my real expectation (though so easily wrong)is that they are just signals able to be mounted on a plastic fairing, and so, need two wires. The (Chinese?) manufacturer might look for a suitable code that matches every brand of motorcycle and can't find one, so chooses the red and black one that is recognizeable if you open any battery powered doodad from flashlights to transistor radios...the black is negative, the red is +.

The one thing I have NEVER seen though, is a Red groundwire. Not yet, anyways.

 

[1948man]

Thank you. Yes, The aftermarkets do have a red and a black wire and there was one 1157, 2 filament bulb in one light. I think it came with it but can't remember for sure. I am assuming the unit has running lights capabilities and I will do the test you advise.

 

[1948man]

Got ground sorted. On the other wires, turns out red is signal and black is running lights. Running lights work, right turn signal works and left turn signal doesn't want to blink. To be honest, I was having that same problem when the fairing was in place and it would usually resolve after 10 minutes of riding. Not sure where the glitch is there. I don't suppose I could plug into any other wire with the left signal wire?? It's plugged into gray now. The carbs are off the bike right now so I can't go for a ride.

 

[Gorminrider]

from the GS1100 diagram i have aboard here,
Left turn goes into Black socket in the headlight bucket mess. No white stripe on this. Black only.
Right turn is correct in Lg (Light green)
gray might well suit run lights. I see in the diagram I have that it ends with a double socket .It also lights your gauges. It goes on when key is turned.Brown might also work, but it goes into a sophisticated black box I don't have on my bikes. Usually, the open brown in the headlight mess is intended for english bikes that have a front parking light bulb inside the headlamp, I think

 

[1948man]

from the GS1100 diagram i have aboard here,
Left turn goes into Black socket in the headlight bucket mess. No white stripe on this. Black only.
Right turn is correct in Lg (Light green)
gray might well suit run lights. I see in the diagram I have that it ends with a double socket .It also lights your gauges. It goes on when key is turned.Brown might also work, but it goes into a sophisticated black box I don't have on my bikes. Usually, the open brown in the headlight mess is intended for english bikes that have a front parking light bulb inside the headlamp, I think

I misspoke. I do indeed have the left turn plugged into the black socket and running lights into the gray double socket. I've changed things so much I'm confusing myself.

 

[Gorminrider]

that's good then. Since the Right turn works correctly, I expect the problem with the Left is a simple one, because both signals take their command from the same wire (Light Blue "Lbl" inside the handlebar switch.

Do they go on at all? ("they" being front+rear)? With the original relay, on MOST of our bikes they both must glow bright to blink. I'm not familiar with added the turn timer on your bike but it should be irrelevant to the present problem because one works. The exception would be a mass of corrosion in the handlebar control.
Come to that, the connectionsinside the turn switch may be dirty especially on the non-working side....

IF both lit,but one dim, check that the bulb in the left rear is the same wattage (the number will do)as the right rear. And of course Check for good connection in the bulb socket by wiggling with lense off...

Running lights are always dimmer than the turn signals. Check that they both are.

if one or both Left signalsdon't glow at either end of bike, most likely is a break in the circuit (the + Black at front or rear or just the ground coming from the REAR stem, since your running lights work at the front...) or a burned out bulb.

The indicator in the dash is also a clue. I think you have two dash indicators on that bike. If it glows, that tells you there is + on the black wire very near the dash and so, near the headlight bucket.
I hope you found the "double ground socket" (double female bullet connection) in the headlamp and are using it. It simplifies things. BUT, if you are using other ground sockets, plug the Left ground into where the Right ground is and that will tell you if the ground you had it plugged into is faulty.

 

[habsdoc]

A bad connection with a lower voltage will also cause the signal to not blink. Check voltages against one another and make sure you do have a good ground for the side that is not blinking.