fuel injected turbo katana

[jwhelan65]

Luv that bike!

 

[Guest]

turbo katana

turbo katana

Well, it is that time of year when all good motorcycle owners begin to dream of what they will do until the weather is good again for riding. That is, all of us closer to the poles.
Well, I am installing that turbo I have been puting off. I checked the pressure today to see what my idle and 4k reading were with the top end oiler and oil cooler installed.

factory says 1.6psi @ 1,200 rpm and between 5-6psi @ 3k for my '83 1100. Mine is running 2.5psi @ 1,200 rpm and 13psi @ 4k. Plenty good enough for a N/A motor. However, I need to get to .5 bar or 8psi @ idle and 2 bar or 30 psi @ 3k. How do I do that?

Some very smart turbo guys sent me a diagram to build a restrictor that threads into the oil sensor plate in place of the oil sensor. It restricts (whereby increasing) the pressure. the turbo will run a feed from that tap. And, here is the restrictor.

My, didn't that work nicely. I now have 7psi @ 1,500 rpm as taken from the right side oil gallery at the base of #4 cylinder. Tomorrow I will check pressure directly from the restrictor and if it is not enough, I will decrease the passages just a little more.

Here is a vid of the pressure before the restrictor. And I just bought a new pipe too that I guess I won't be using...Good thing I bought more than one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AH38oc-zxVc&feature=youtu.be

 

[Guest]

Did a retest today.

Oil temp: 105 C, 10w/40

With restrictor installed, no turbo, pressure deadended to gauge from oil sensor plate:
3psi @ idle (1,300)
17psi @ 4k
23psi @ 5k

Right Side gallery @ base of cylinder 4:
1.5psi @ idle

No restrictor: http://youtu.be/Ns4XRTDE2L8

This shows idle pressures between the r/s gallery and main gallery with restrictor. I am told my goal is 8psi @ idle for this journal bearing IHI. http://youtu.be/JyV7AGSX4Aw
I have a 9mm feed from the sensor plate to the turbo, and a 4.75mm feed to the the rest of the engine. Others are running this engine with a 4mm feed to crank and head. I guess I will reduce the 4.75mm to 3.5mm and see what that does and adjust as needed.

 

[Guest]

OK, I flumixed my original attempt at the restrictor. I may not have posted that here but, I buggered up the threads enough not to be able to use the restrictor perminently but they are good enough for testing. I thought, Hmm, I don't want to keep making these things with different hole sizes so I turned it into a two piece press fit unit. Now I only have to make one part if the hole sizes are not right. When I have the correct sizes, I will make a nice purty one.

Now, I was told to make a 9mm main feed hole and a 4mm cross hole to feed the engine. But, correct me if I am wrong, IF the engine feed restriction is 4mm and the turbo feed line is AN-4 (4.25ish mm) then the main feed diameter doesn't have to be 9mm. As long as it is at least 4.25mm it makes no difference?? yes?? Because all the other diameters are smaller.

Moving on, I remade the restrictor with a 3.5mm feed for the engine and head, and shrunk the main feed hole diameter to 5.5mm. As seen in the pics. I will test these sizes tomorrow and measure the pressure differences.

 

[Guest]

Did some more testing today. Reduced the oil restrictor to 5.5mm main feed diameter. This feeds the turbo and leads to the 3.5mm feed holes for the engine. It's these holes that influence the pressure. The video is up on my youtube channel.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5RLiwAnBRks

Now I will make the final restrictor as I have the correct specs. Note that these numbers are the result of stock oil pump gears in this 1100. I will be installing hi-flow oil pump gears which will raise the pressure a few more points.

I will have a straight fitting out the top of the restrictor. AN-4 male to a NPT male thread. This will allow me to tighten the restrictor down as well as give me a point to attach the "T" fitting so I can run the turbo feed and as well as an oil pressure gauge to monitor the oil pressure to the turbo.

The restrictor fit into my top end oiler distribution block which is where the old oil pressure switch use to live.

 

[Guest]

Katana turbo oil restrictor complete

Katana turbo oil restrictor complete

I finnished the restrictor today and have achieved the desired oil pressure increase. From 1.5psi @ idle to better than 8psi, and from 5/6psi @ higher rpm to 30+ psi. The turbo will now be happy. I am sure a few of the gaskets or O'rings may complain though.

The restrictor replaces the oil pressure sensor and captures the oil coming from the pump by sliding into the boss below it. My old Ward Performance top end oilling kit used an O'ring to seal that boss and capture the oil. This feeds directly to the turbo. There is a cross feed in the restrictor that feeds the head and crank, at a higher pressure than stock which is also good.

I am going to be making a deep dish (no not pizza) oil surge well and move the pick ups to the rear. They will draw the oil from the deeper well to prevent the all too familiar air sucking at agressive throttle. More on that at a later date.

The pics show a single line for the turbo but I will be running a "T" with one side going to the pressure gauge and one to the turbo. I will be using this for a gauge this week to monitor pressure in a real world environment.

I may miss some posts here and there on here but you can always pick up more details on my blog. http://blog.suzuki-katana.com

 

[Guest]

Well, thought I was done, but I am not.
Went for a pound today with the new restrictor in and a pressure gauge. @ Oil temp of 107C, idle (1,500 rpm) was 17 to 18 psi. @ 2krpm, pressure rose to 30psi. I thought that was a little high so I opened up the cross feed hole in the restrictor by 0.030". Idle has now dropped to 7-8 psi and 30 psi is reached by 3krpm. This was @ 106C temp. I was surprised at the substantial idle drop considering that I was at this level with 2 x 4mm holes. It is late here now so I will do some more in the daylight tomorrow. I also have to get a gauge that reads over 30psi so I can see what this is putting out @ higher rpm.

The stock gears run 1.5psi @ about 1200 rpm and max about 6psi @ 4k. I am running stock oil pump gears at this point so I expect the pressure to rise somewhat when I install the hi-flow gears and change the oil. This oil is old. If anyone out there has any pressure range numbers for an old GS1100 that would be appreciated. I was shooting for 10psi @ 1,200 rpm when hot.

Id doesn't seem to be a problem getting the needed pressure above 2krpm. I have to run a test tomorrow with the right side oil gallery and see what the crank and head are seeing now for pressure. First I have to get a 100psi gauge.

I will have to juggle things abit. Here is a video for those interested in the cold, warm, hot pressure drops. From idle to 2krpm I am seeing almost a 10psi drop in pressure. I am sure it is more @ higher rpms but my gauge won't allow me to push it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWt1DaOUnws&feature=plcp

 

[Guest]

I'm completely lost in the technical details but I'm still following along... awesome work

I think this is even more beastly than Derek's Kat over on the Kat Australia forum! He's drillit over there... saw your thread over there as well

Edit: Forgot to mention I ride with him and Reg every now and then, and I believe Reg met you over in Canada a while back.

 

[Good Times]

You'll get it dialed in and when you do all I'll hear is....blah blah blah blah turbo.....

Love the build and the detail you are putting into this thread!

 

[Guest]

Rob, Found this thread late in the game. Great thread and a phenomenal build. I really appreciate not only your design skills but your willingness to concisely document the process, what a gift to those that may try to follow your lead.

 

[Guest]

Problems,
Went for a rip today, pegged the oil pressure gauge at 100psi. Idle is 7psi. That is quite a range from stock: 1.5psi to 6psi. God some work to do. Oh yeh, my new Earl's oil cooler relieved itself all over the front of my bike.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UqN4eTPO-k&feature=plcp

 

[twotimeGSr]

Great thread. Technically beyond my skills but love it. Did your cooler rupture.. indicating a restriction after the cooler?

 

[Guest]

I pulled off my oil cooler and my top end oiler. I have read debates on whether these things drop oil pressure do to the increased area that the pump has to push oil up. It is too late tonight to do the tests to will get to it tomorrow. I ran the pressures today with them connected. 1500 and 3000 rpms. I will post the results tomorrow night. I am measureing the main gallery oil pressure sensor location as well as the right side oil gallery at the base of cylinder 4.

Great thread. Technically beyond my skills but love it. Did your cooler rupture.. indicating a restriction after the cooler?

No, its just weeping. This is the second cooler that has gone bad. I may rethink which cooler I buy next. This is an Earl's. (yes, it is installed correctly)

 

[John Kat]

I'm not sure I understand what you are trying to do but I get the feeling that the restrictor might be in the wrong place?
I have a turbo engined car and the restrictor branches off off one of the engine oil lines to go to the turbo.
This is normally required when you use a turbo with ball bearings.
I suppose you know all that but just in case

 

[Bevo]

Great thread and skills!
Your bike turned out amazing and I loved the touches to make it tight and clean.

I hope you get your problems sorted out soon and finish this bike off.

 

[Guest]

turbo katana oil bypass

turbo katana oil bypass

Good news. Found a nice bit of kit that regluates oil pressure. It utilizesa bypass and relief valve. I have done some initial testing and it is working well. I am sure I can dial it in even better as the company 'RACELINE Oil Pumps" is working with me to find a solution.

Not only is this piece of kit small but it is cnc machined, anodized and race ready. A perfect fit for my SHOW & GO and anyone elses machine. This means the turbo is a go again, and I don't have to worry about pressure spikes or high oil pressure killing my katana.

I have it hooked up from the oil pressure switch area that the restrictor is now occupying, then pass through to the turbo (in this case the gauge) and over pressure is released via the dump hose. In the pic that is going temperarily into the clutch cover as that was the convenient fittings to hook into for testing.

The unit comes with 3 selectable spring tensions for pressure variation plus, there is an adjusting screw to increase or decrease spring tension further adding to adjustablity. The low pressure spring limited my pressure at about 2.5 bar or about 35psi. Tomorrow I will move up to the medium spring and try to dial it in at about 60psi.

Once I have had some more time with this I will get more detailed with the results.

 

[Guest]

Wow, it's been that long!! I really need to get this turbo project finished.

 

[GS1150Pilot]

Yes, please. It's one helluva beast and I'd like to know it's ripping up the road.

 

[cbxchris]

I was reading over your thread and noticed the Carolina Cycle oiling kit. Kim sponsored my bike for years. I found oiling issues also with the oiling kit in turbo use. I ALWAYS used stock pump gears. I did something a little different. I milled my cylinders to accept GSXR head o rings. Bored out the head gaskets and eliminated any oil leak issues. It stood up to 40 pounds of boost and three stage nitrous.......I also used 1150 heads. I did not go EFI at the time. The technology was just not here. I did end top end fueling issues by going with a Mallory fuel pump used much like a USAC car on alcohol. I used a return system where there was constant fuel flow. Lot of people at the time thought it over kill. I stopped killing pistons and at the same time dumped Wiseco pistons which was hard because Kim had them on board for me as a sponsor. J&E had a good piston but Arias provided the best set up for me. I also never used low compression pistons. We had normally 250 pounds of cranking compression. With a 1425 good 60 foot time were to be had due to the torque. Kim had a super flow dyno and pretty much anything that went on the track was proven in the shop first.

 

[mottyl]

Yes Rob you should get back at it.

I had almost forgotten you were working on that.

Chris