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GS 650 Can't Accelerate

  • Thread starter Thread starter superdave
  • Start date Start date
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superdave

Guest
I bought an '82 GS650L last week and have been real excited to ride it, but am unable so far. This is my first bike, but I have some mechanical wrenching abilities through working on my older Volkswagens, so I'm not scared, just a new kid. I've done some poking through the forums and looked at BikeCliff's page as well as in the Clymer manual that arrived yesterday with no luck. I bought a twin parts bike at the same time.

The problem: As soon as I get to where the slides would be lifting, the bike sputters and won't accelerate anymore. If I am riding and keep it at full throttle, eventually it will catch up with itself and take off like a rocket. But it is difficult to get to that point. I have tried looking at the slides while the bike is running, and can see that just as they start to lift, the bike sputters and will sometimes die if it is just sitting. If riding, it will sputter until I let off the throttle.

What I've done:
*Pulled the carbs off twice and shot cleaner through every orifice I can find.

-During the second time, I noted that the jet needle [I hope I am calling it the right thing, I mean the narrow thing that points down from the slide] on one carb was sprung opposite the other three. Meaning the spring was pushing it down (away from the slide, extending it) instead of up. I swapped this one with one that appears to be properly sprung.

-Also during the second time, I noted that one of the choke plunger's screws wasn't in the notch in the rod, but next to it. I loosened that screw and seated it in the notch.

-Also during that second time, I found one of the carbs had the plug missing from the jet down in the bowl. Replace it with one from a parts bike.

*Removed the vent hoses from the carbs (the ones between 1&2 and 3&4) per a suggestion on this forum found in a search. My bike has pod filters.

*Last night I pulled the tops of the carbs and removed the slides and shot cleaner down through the needle jet, and through both air jets that face the back of the bike. Cleaner flowed freely through all of them (evidenced by the fact that when sprayed into the air jets, it spurted up through the needle jet).

One thing I am a little unsure of is the jet needles. Every drawing I have seen of them make it look like it is a very long, thin taper. Mine seem to have the same diameter almost all the way to the bottom, with just a very blunt taper. They have the same appearance on both the bike's carb as well as the parts bike's carb. Is this correct? Or am I confused about what the jet needle is? (It is my understanding that the jet needle is the thing pointing down from the slide.)

In all this, I noted that the the coil wires for 2 and 3 would shock me when touched while running. No sparking was noted unless my hand was touching the end of the spark plug wire and near the engine. I changed out the right side coil with one from a parts bike and no more sparking is noted.
 
So many things can be wrong with that intake system. I can attest to the fact that there are parts of these carbs you can't clean with spray. They need to be disassembled and dipped. If the slides aren't lifting, they might be perforated and junk. Or maybe there isn't enough vacuum in the carbs do to a filter not being installed. Or the intake is just too leaky in general.

While the carbs are off, check all the intake rubber to make sure it is soft. Almost certainly you need need new o-rings on the intake pipes. While the carbs are apart, you can check the jets and needles to make sure they're correct for your configuration. Especially since you've already found some things wrong. Since the carbs will need to be rebalanced anyway, take the opportunity to adjust the valves too. If you have the stock airbox and exhaust, you need the vent hoses installed correctly for it to run consistently. If someone recommended you remove them, then maybe pod filters are installed? In that case, you need to make sure it is jetted correctly.

I know all that sounds like a lot of work, but it's the only way you're going to get it running anywhere near right and reliable. All of these things are necessary. If you don't you'll end up with more work in it, and it still won't run right. Is that want happened to the last owner? There is no shortcut. Take it all apart, make sure it's all correct. It will run like a dream afterwards. I've been there.
 
Apparently you do not have an airbox installed? :-k

That would be the only way you could attempt to observe the slides while the bike is running.

The airbox MUST be installed to prevent the exact symptoms you are experiencing.

And, yes, the jet needle is as you are describing. There is not much of a taper, but get your calipers out, it's there.

.
 
There are pods installed. No airbox on this bike or the parts bike.

That is how I was able to observe the slides moving a little.

The rubber boot on all of the slides looks fine and seems to be sealed ok.
 
Ditto on the intake pipe O rings. You can start the bike and spray a bit of starting fluid on the flanges.. if theres a vacuum leak there the RPMs will go up. Best to really just tear the carbs all the way down and give them a 24 hr soak in berrymans, new orings inside the carbs and fuel tubes, new intake orings. Get all your rebuild orings from CYCLEORINGS.COM
 
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He mentioned that the bike has pod filters. The jetting needs to be checked. You are running lean on the pilots and it is my guess that whoever put the pod filters on the bike, didn't rejet the thing. Do you still have the airbox from the parts bike? If so, toss the pod filters aside, install the airbox, seal EVERYTHING up as best you can and see how it runs...
 
Greetings and Salutations!!

Greetings and Salutations!!

Hi Mr. superdave,

You'll need to properly clean the carbs. There's a link to the proper procedure in your "mega-welcome" along with a couple of maintenance task lists which are pretty much mandatory to restore these bikes to their former safe, reliable, bullet-proof condition. If you've modified the intake system and/or exhaust you'll need to change the jetting in the carbs too. Remember, shortcuts lead to frustration. As Mr. Dave 8338 alluded to, if you can put everything back to stock and get it running good in that condition, it's then easier to modify. Let's get started. :)

I just stopped by to welcome you to the forum in my own, special way.
big_hi.gif


If there's anything you'd like to know about the Suzuki GS model bikes, and most others actually, you've come to the right place. There's a lot of knowledge and experience here in the community. Come on in and let me say "HOoooowwwDY!"....:)

Here is your very own magical, mystical, mythical, mind-expanding "mega-welcome". Please take notice of the "Top 10 Common Issues", the Carb Rebuild Series, and the Stator Papers. Now let me roll out the welcome mat for you...

Please click here for your mega-welcome, chock full of tips, suggestions, links to vendors, and other information. Then feel free to visit my little BikeCliff website where I've been collecting the wisdom of this generous community. Don't forget, we like pictures! Not you, your bike! :D

Thanks for joining us. Keep us informed.

Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff
 
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Unfortunately, neither bike has the airbox. Is there suggested jetting for use with the pods? Will I need to buy different jets to accommodate the pods, or is this a change to the jet needles that are in there? I've seen things that suggest either is true...
 
Do you know who made the pods? Also, folks need to know what exhaust you have before they can recommend jets.
 
Not sure who made the pods. I can't find any markings on them to indicate a manufacturer. I suppose they are some kind of generic thing from Ebay. In fact, they look a lot like this: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/52MM...1684144QQptZMotorcyclesQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

Exhaust is stock.

I think one or two of the boots might have a problem, but the ones on the parts bike all look ok. I guess I'll go ahead and order the o rings for the carbs and o rings for the boots to head. I would love to know what jets to order too! :)

Thanks guys! I was a little annoyed today because the landscape project I had slated didn't work out, and I can't just walk into a dealer and buy the intake stuff and work on the bike either. But getting the issues narrowed down helps a bit, and maybe I'll go clean the garage so it has somewhere to sit more safely.
 
Oh, another question with those pods. What, if anything, should the engine's breather hose be connected to?

The guy (who seemed to be knowledgeable as he had like 25ish bikes and talked about how he fixed 'em up and sold 'em and such-but I don't think he actually did much to this bike yet) talked about how he just loved them because it made working on the carbs so much easier!

I'm not so sure anymore...:rolleyes:
 
From your description, a previous owner worked on the carbs, and made many mistakes. If he made mistakes in the carburetor, he probably attempted other repairs and adjustments, and made mistakes in those, too. You need to carefully and systematically discover what he's done, and correct his mistakes, in addition to the normal super major tune-up needed to bring a bike of this age back to smooth and reliable operation.

And after you finish the job, riding your 650 will give you a big smile every time.
 
themess said:
From your description, a previous owner worked on the carbs, and made many mistakes. If he made mistakes in the carburetor, he probably attempted other repairs and adjustments, and made mistakes in those, too. You need to carefully and systematically discover what he's done, and correct his mistakes, in addition to the normal super major tune-up needed to bring a bike of this age back to smooth and reliable operation.

And after you finish the job, riding your 650 will give you a big smile every time.
Click to expand...

Well, luckily, the carbs were swapped onto this bike, so hopefully not too much else is messed up. I ordered the o-rings (both for the carbs and intake boots) from the suggested site, and anticipate their arrival. I cleaned up the garage and pulled the bike in so I can get some of the other issues figured out in the mean time (such as the fuel gauge sender and turn signals). And I am still able to warm up the engine and get the right oil in there and such.

I am going to have to be patient and look forward to it I guess. The guy had another GS650 that was running well but I didn't like the looks of as much (can't remember the model type off the top of my head) that I've thought maybe I should have purchased. But once it is all fixed up I think I'll be happy.
 
Oh, what about that engine breather hose? Should it be open to the atmosphere with those pods installed?
 
superdave said:
The guy ... talked about how he just loved them because it made working on the carbs so much easier!
Click to expand...
I hear that line so many times from the ones who like pods. :o

The flip side of that coin is that, once the carbs are properly cleaned, you don't need to remove them again for a LONG time if you have the stock airbox.

Seems that most of the reasons to remove the carbs so often are so they can be re-jetted and re-re-jetted to compensate for the pods. :eek:



superdave said:
Oh, what about that engine breather hose? Should it be open to the atmosphere with those pods installed?
Click to expand...
I have seen a few different options for that.
- One stylish solution is to go to Auto Zone, get the little filter that looks like a pod filter and put that on your hose.
- Another solution is to install a longer hose and run it down the frame so it exits in the airstream below the swingarm.
This would be like the old-style cars before PCV systems were in place.
Cut the hose at an angle, it will set up a little suction to ventilate the crankcase.
- If you are more concerned about your environmental impact (ironic, since you are going to pods), you can install a trap in the middle of that longer hose.
You would have to decide what would work for you, but make it so the trap can be removed and emptied, but keep the vent hose to evacuate the vapors.

.
 
Steve said:
I hear that line so many times from the ones who like pods. :o

The flip side of that coin is that, once the carbs are properly cleaned, you don't need to remove them again for a LONG time if you have the stock airbox.

Seems that most of the reasons to remove the carbs so often are so they can be re-jetted and re-re-jetted to compensate for the pods. :eek:




I have seen a few different options for that.
- One stylish solution is to go to Auto Zone, get the little filter that looks like a pod filter and put that on your hose.
- Another solution is to install a longer hose and run it down the frame so it exits in the airstream below the swingarm.
This would be like the old-style cars before PCV systems were in place.
Cut the hose at an angle, it will set up a little suction to ventilate the crankcase.
- If you are more concerned about your environmental impact (ironic, since you are going to pods), you can install a trap in the middle of that longer hose.
You would have to decide what would work for you, but make it so the trap can be removed and emptied, but keep the vent hose to evacuate the vapors.

.
Click to expand...

Good options, pretty simple. I guess the real reason I was asking is if having that thing open made a difference on the engine's running. I have an old VW Bus that would not run properly until I found and installed a proper oil filler cap. Somehow that air that leaked past the old ill-fitting cap was enough to throw off the engine's computer. I'm not sure if it was because the pressure was no longer being relieved to the intake system or what, but it threw it off.

If anyone has a used airbox off a parts bike, I would love to hear about it! Sounds like it would make my life much easier.

The only reason I'm "going to pods" is because that is what was on the bike when I got it, and I want to ride the thing!
 
Breather hose will be fine with one of those tiny round K&N looking breathers on the end..i have seen a few guys that buy a longer hose and make small hole in the top of one of the pods to stick the hose in also..either way its ok. Basically that hose acts like your PCV valve on a car..relieves crankcase pressure and reburns any vapors.
 
The bike won't run right with stock jetting and pods, and unfortunately we don't have a good database of information on what jetting to use. You are going to have to move the main jet up at least a couple of sizes and maybe the pilot jets as well. Shimming the needle helps, although not as much as a Dynojet needle which has more taper.

Good luck and please don't skip any steps when cleaning the carbs. Also, make sure you support the float post when driving out the pin or the post may snap off - check the archives for more details on this.
 
I think I've found a stock airbox for my bike. It is considerably less expensive than buying a Dynojet kit and putting things back to stock just seems like it will probably be a lot less dicking around with things.

I guess what I'm wondering is if going that direction vs finding the jets to make my bike work with the pods that came with it means that I would be missing out on a few horses or better economy or something?

I'll bet that finding bigger jets to work with the pods won't help fuel economy, but how about horsepower? Will I end up with a few more if I can get the pods and bigger jets to work?
 
Hi,

Maybe I'm a lazy old fuddy-duddy, but the measly few horses that you might gain aren't nearly worth the hassles and headaches of fiddling around with your carbs every other day until you, hopefully, get it dialed in properly. Don't get me wrong, there are many here who can perform this voodoo magic and get their bikes to run great. But it's just not for me. Feel free to experiment but I can almost guarantee that the outcome will not be worth the effort.

I could see attempting it on a liter bike or larger because then the "wow" factor would be greater. But on a 30 year old 650cc bike, I don't see much "wow" factor available.


Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff
 
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