GS Charging System Health

[007jag]

Charging questions.

Charging questions.

Hello,
I've been in process of bringing back to life my gs700es that was down for 15years. I've replaced all the std stuff and upgraded to SS brake lines.

Before the long down time my system blew 2 R/R and when she died 15 years ago I figured it was the R/R again. So I picked up an Electrosport one - now the 3rd to go in. But when fire up time came I found the ignitor had gone out.
That is now replaced and she is running, but I'm concerned about the charging output of the stator?

I have tried to follow the stator checks & honestly I get confused.

So here is my question:
With the bike started and holding rpms at 5K what voltages should my very simple meter read at the battery?

I've been told it should be around 14 volts dc - but I'm only reading around 12.4x to 12.5x volts.

Thanks in advance for any info.

Jack

 

[posplayr]

Hello,


I've been told it should be around 14 volts dc - but I'm only reading around 12.4x to 12.5x volts.

Thanks in advance for any info.

Jack

See the attached

 

[Redman]

Pos,

Thanks for doing that.

Your schematic is a very good reference. Really shows everthing need to undersatand all in one diagram, without getting tangled up in the entire schematic. Maybe show the other ground cable to engine (although you are trying to discuss the charging circuit, a lot of the discussion is about the grounding.)
And for a second or two the line in the fuse box up to the aux fuse had me confused where it should cross over the line from the ignition switch. I would suggest that Either put the connection dot everywhere else or make that wire "cross over" with half a circle.

You showed pictures of R/R with additional ground wires on the R/R mounting bolt. I will add add a comment that on the Gs (that I am familiar with) that the R/R is mounted on the bottom of the battery box, so not so accessable. On the Gs can (and I have) add the ground wires on the side of the battery box (more acsessable) were the R/R ground (black) wire is landed on the mounting bolt of the starter solenoid. Will allready be a blk/wht ground wire there from the wiring harness.

Understanding all this is one thing. Describing it is another. You have done well.


<<later note: Pos, I am assuming you made that electrical diagram. But now I see it specifically says "GS1100G", which is not a bike you have. So maybe not.

 

[posplayr]

Pos,

Thanks for doing that.

Your schematic is a very good reference. Really shows everthing need to undersatand all in one diagram, without getting tangled up in the entire schematic. Maybe show the other ground cable to engine (although you are trying to discuss the charging circuit, a lot of the discussion is about the grounding.)
And for a second or two the line in the fuse box up to the aux fuse had me confused where it should cross over the line from the ignition switch. I would suggest that Either put the connection dot everywhere else or make that wire "cross over" with half a circle.

.

Red, I will make that schematic more clear. I can add in the battery and starter. The pic is supposed to represent simple current paths for the charging system to motivate R/R connections (e.g. grounding ) and the starter runs off of the battery. Simple enough to add the starter though

Pos,

You showed pictures of R/R with additional ground wires on the R/R mounting bolt. I will add a comment that on the Gs (that I am familiar with) that the R/R is mounted on the bottom of the battery box, so not so accessable. On the Gs can (and I have) add the ground wires on the side of the battery box (more acsessable) were the R/R ground (black) wire is landed on the mounting bolt of the starter solenoid. Will allready be a blk/wht ground wire there from the wiring harness.

.

I don’t have a G as you know so, if someone wanted to do an equivalent mount with using the battery box instead of the side plate we could add the picture. I think concept still holds.

Pos,

Understanding all this is one thing. Describing it is another. You have done well.

Thanks I'm trying to keep the description to the simplest form that achieves an level of understanding of the principles. I get several questions so apparently it was not very clear before.

 

[posplayr]

STEP #1.) GOOD R/R CONNECTIONS On the typical non sense wire R/R there are 5 wires. Make sure these have very good connections to the rest of the system by either:

• (1) High quality contacts (like spades with dielectric grease)
• (2) Direct physically twist and solder with shrink tubing.

I prefer #2 as I seldom have to remove the connections and the solder keeps out corrosion.

Just for reference, the 5 wires are:

R/R (+) - RED charging system output
R/R (-) - Black (typically with a ring lug) Charging system return
3 stator wires which are W/G, Y and W/B if OEM or typically all Yellow if say from an aftermarket stator

Here is a picture of an 83 GS1100ED with stock harness and an OEM R/R . First thing I did was cut off the burned and melted OEM connectors from the harness. The original ED OEM R/R was fired so it was thrown out. These connect ons avoid the left hand switch and are best.

If you have a 6 wire the same applies, you are just going to have to find a low impedance switched power source. You can do a search, but a coil mod relay provides about the best option. Otherwise hook it right to the battery and make sure to not let the GS set for long periods of days

The picture note in lower right hand corner it says "4 of 5 wires from the R/R harness R W/R W/B and Y"

What makes this a little confusing is the combination of OE/Aftermarket stators/ and R/R's I think I also mis labeled some of the previous wires.

See if the attached table helps. Each row is a particular signal ; I tried to color code each one. It represents the stator, R/R and Harness as separate components and how the colors change depending upon OE and aftermarket. Aftermarket is really simple, so after all the color confusion is over you will end up with three free connections and two free wires in the harness.

 

[atrent]

by the way electro sports are out of stators at this time and dont exspect any in untill FEB. how ever denniskirk.com has the exact same ones for a couple dollars cheaper

Rewinding a stator is not a very difficult chore. I rewound my daughter"s
250 stator last year. Not very time consuming. Just count the turns as you remove the old wire, get new magnet wire of the same gauge and away you go. Being careful not to nick the insulation as you rewind.
alex

 

[tom203]

I recently noticed a ebay guy in Alabama (?), who rewinds both 12 and 18 pole stators- send yours in and he either sends you an equivalent or rewinds yours. I recall it was about $80.

 

[Hoosier Daddy]

Posting for future referance...

 

[posplayr]

Wondering if every can read these links? Anybody that can't?



Link to Revised PHASE A of Stator Pages:
http://www.keepandshare.com/doc/3970459/stator-papers-phase-a-pdf-may-13-2012-10-43-am-55k?da=y


Link to Revised PHASE B of Stator Pages with discussion of testing methods:
http://www.keepandshare.com/doc/3977567/dummy-load-scanned-pdf-may-14-2012-8-24-pm-649k?da=y

 

[BigD_83]

They opened as .pdfs fine for me, but I have to save them first.

Running a Mac G5 with OS X 10.4.11 at home...

 

[cowboyup3371]

Same here, requires me to download them first.

 

[posplayr]

Thanks guys, I'm slowly starting to reconstruct some of the lost files I had hosted at the old site. I seem to still have most on my system.

I guess the download is what happens for free accounts. Free advertising

 

[RobG1970]

Posplayr - question, unless I am missing something which I could be, can you tell me when you are cleaning up the grounds to 1 point of ground, where do you connect the main battery ground. Is it just connected to the single point to the R/R??? Or some place else also??? Thanks Rob

 

[posplayr]

Posplayr - question, unless I am missing something which I could be, can you tell me when you are cleaning up the grounds to 1 point of ground, where do you connect the main battery ground. Is it just connected to the single point to the R/R??? Or some place else also??? Thanks Rob

The large wire (#8 ) used for starter currents stay the same and are un affected.

The single point refers to all currents returning to the R/R(-), not currents returning to the battery when cranking the starter.

 

[RobG1970]

The large wire (#8 ) used for starter currents stay the same and are un affected.

The single point refers to all currents returning to the R/R(-), not currents returning to the battery when cranking the starter.

Thanks Poslayr - may I confirm my wiring with you>? My large #8 black ground wire comes from my batteries -Neg side and bolts to a engine bolt. (please picture) so this is not part of the ground loop that we are trying to isolate the battery from>??? Sorry for all the questions, electrical is not my thing, in fact I WOULD RATHER tare the motor apart then chase down a short ...LOLOLOL again, thank you GREATLY for you help...
Rob

 

[posplayr]

Thanks Poslayr - may I confirm my wiring with you>? My large #8 black ground wire comes from my batteries -Neg side and bolts to a engine bolt. (please picture) so this is not part of the ground loop that we are trying to isolate the battery from>??? Sorry for all the questions, electrical is not my thing, in fact I WOULD RATHER tare the motor apart then chase down a short ...LOLOLOL again, thank you GREATLY for you help...
Rob

leave that #8 wire in (call it GROUND WIRE A).

If you only run an additional (GROUND WIRE B) from the Battery(-) to the R/R(-) then any frame return currents will get picked up by this #8 wire (GROUND WIRE A) and allow current to flow past the negative battery post and through to the R/R(-). So all frame return currents as well as the battery charging current will be carried on the GROUND WIRE B.

However if you run yet another ground wire (GROUND WIRE C ) from the frame to the R/R(-), then current can flow straight throught to the R/R(-) without going through engine mounts, #8 GROUND WIRE A, and B. So provided you have good "frame ground" connections, the only current on GROUND WIRE C will be the current used to charge the battery.
That will minimize the voltage drops between the battery and R/R.

 

[MisterCinders]

After re-wiring the bike, I tried to incorporate these measures into the new harness, but even with the diagrams, I get lost. Of course, I am pretty dumb.

Coming at this from the available grounds with the following definitions:

FRAME = a solid frame bolt
BATT NEG = the negative battery post

I think the best approach is:

Engine/starter ground (the fat ground wire from the back of the engine) to BATT NEG .

R/R ground wire to R/R post

The two ground ring terminals from the harness to (a) solenoid ground post; and (b) FRAME

To this we add the following ground wires:

FRAME to R/R

R/R to BATT NEG.

The only grounds at BATT NEG are (1) the R/R link; and (2) the starter ground from the engine.

If I understand this, the frame acts as a ground because of the ground link chain of

FRAME -> R/R -> BATT NEG.

Otherwise, there is no connection between the BATT NEG and the wiring (which would render the frame not a ground at all).

Also, for the two ground terminals off the harness, could I connect them to FRAME and add a new ground wire from the solenoid (for the relay, not the starter ground) to FRAME?

 

[Crankthat]

Thank you for this great thread.
This all makes more sense now .

 

[posplayr]

Nice that it made sense

 

[posplayr]

A schematic and a physical layout drawing is the best way to convey the design.

After re-wiring the bike, I tried to incorporate these measures into the new harness, but even with the diagrams, I get lost. Of course, I am pretty dumb.

Coming at this from the available grounds with the following definitions:

FRAME = a solid frame bolt
BATT NEG = the negative battery post

I think the best approach is:

Engine/starter ground (the fat ground wire from the back of the engine) to BATT NEG .

R/R ground wire to R/R post

The two ground ring terminals from the harness to (a) solenoid ground post; and (b) FRAME

To this we add the following ground wires:

FRAME to R/R

R/R to BATT NEG.

The only grounds at BATT NEG are (1) the R/R link; and (2) the starter ground from the engine.

If I understand this, the frame acts as a ground because of the ground link chain of

FRAME -> R/R -> BATT NEG.

Otherwise, there is no connection between the BATT NEG and the wiring (which would render the frame not a ground at all).

Also, for the two ground terminals off the harness, could I connect them to FRAME and add a new ground wire from the solenoid (for the relay, not the starter ground) to FRAME?