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GS1100ES Clutch Hub Stuff

  • Thread starter Thread starter 63ronin
  • Start date Start date
6

63ronin

Guest
Hi All:

I recently started posting my latest project under the - uh - project section. It's an '83 GS1100ES. First Suzuki I've worked on.

So the clutch lever was amazingly hard to pull. Per various posts I checked the cable and routing. That was all fine. So I pulled the clutch cover. And herein lie some of the questions.

I pulled out 11 steel and 11 fiber plates. Counted it 3 times to make sure. That don't seem right. Fiber plates are averaging 2.15 - 2.2 mm thick. The clutch springs are too long at 40.68 mm. So I'm guessing the really hard pull was on account of the long clutch springs. And the center nut, that big 32 mm one, was lose.

So... opinions...
Do I need new fiber plates?
Should I just get all new steel and fibers and springs?
Should I just use stock springs.

Finally, the clutch basket looks rather beat up. How bad does this look? I've circled the bad areas in red.



Like I said... my fist Suzuki. So I'm just learning this one. Boy, does that shop manual come in handy. Almost forgot all about that piano wire holding the last steel in.

later
 
I'd file those out a little bit and put in stock 9 fibers and 9 steels.
The steels are the same so just buy the fibers if the steels check out.
If you're stock than I'd run stock springs. If you spin the clutch put those HD springs with the stock 3&3.
 
Last edited:
Clutch Basket

Clutch Basket

63ronin said:
Hi All:

I recently started posting my latest project under the - uh - project section. It's an '83 GS1100ES. First Suzuki I've worked on.

So the clutch lever was amazingly hard to pull. Per various posts I checked the cable and routing. That was all fine. So I pulled the clutch cover. And herein lie some of the questions.

I pulled out 11 steel and 11 fiber plates. Counted it 3 times to make sure. That don't seem right. Fiber plates are averaging 2.15 - 2.2 mm thick. The clutch springs are too long at 40.68 mm. So I'm guessing the really hard pull was on account of the long clutch springs. And the center nut, that big 32 mm one, was lose.

So... opinions...
Do I need new fiber plates?
Should I just get all new steel and fibers and springs?
Should I just use stock springs.

Finally, the clutch basket looks rather beat up. How bad does this look? I've circled the bad areas in red.



Like I said... my fist Suzuki. So I'm just learning this one. Boy, does that shop manual come in handy. Almost forgot all about that piano wire holding the last steel in.

later
Click to expand...

OUCH!

I did a Clutch Basket dis-assembly during the Christmas holiday here: http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=216696

That's some nasty looking marks on your PRIMARY GEAR basket. I didn't have to replace any springs but I would stay with stock springs and replace the nut/washer that holds the basket in place...well, at least the washer so you can bend it down to lock the nut in place.

Good luck with the rebuild.


Ed
 
That basket is rough , you can file it down some and smooth it up, that will make a clutch hang. Also what does the center hub look like ? From what I see in the pic's it is just as bad. Clean it up the same way. And as stated already go back to stock clutch plates. After market clutches are hell on clutch baskets.
 
Thanks for the input.

As an update, I was poking around the APE website looking at that center nut. I noticed that APE appears to sell a clutch kit that uses one extra friction plate. If this is what was installed in the bike I have that would account for having 11 steel AND 11 friction plates. Would also explain the clutch springs.

It just so happens that I have a "parts bike" which is also an '83. But this one is a standard GS1100E. I'm thinking that I'll take a look at the clutch on that bike. If it is in much better shape, then I'll swap that unit over to the ES. Might still need new friction plates though. But I'll see what happens.

Was actually thinking I could throw the spare "E" engine in my '78 GS1000 (that I haven't even started working on yet). Just an idea. :-\\\
 
Seems to me that you will have to file out those troughs to such an extent the measurement of those splines will be significantly different than the drives plates that slot into them. This could potentially produce a lot of lash (?). Also with that amount of damage on the clutch hub check the specs of the plates themselves. The workshop manual has the limits and I would suspect you are getting there on those too.

I would also take the clutch basket off and examine the cushion springs on the back of it. If they are rattling about (like just about every Suzi out there) then you might be better off getting a whole new welded basket.

Greetings
 
londonboards said:
I would also take the clutch basket off and examine the cushion springs on the back of it. If they are rattling about (like just about every Suzi out there) then you might be better off getting a whole new welded basket.

Greetings
Click to expand...

Just so happens I pulled the clutch basket today. 1/2 the springs are rattling around. So I would say that this clutch assembly has rather had it. I'll dig into my parts bike next weekend and see what that clutch is like. If it's in decent shape then great... I'm ahead. If not... hmmmm... might be spending a few $$$ more than originally estimating.

Oh... I noticed that the crank is welded. Am I remembering other posts correct in that some cranks came welded from the factory? Or by '83 they were all welded?
 
number of clutch plates

number of clutch plates

the 83 bikes came with an extra friction and steel as i remember from new.
 
83 cranks are welded.
I have an extra decent clutch basket if your other one doesn't check out.
 
chef1366 said:
83 cranks are welded.
I have an extra decent clutch basket if your other one doesn't check out.
Click to expand...

I may take you up on that. I was thinking of putting the spare '83 1100 engine in my '78 GS1000 (I hear it's a straight fit?). But I need a complete 1100 engine to do that. OR... I actually rebuild the top end of the 1000 and keep the original engine. Hadn't decided. Be a while before I actually touch the 1000.
 
yea that basket looks pretty rough. file those marks out for sure. you should be good with that. also the springs will rattle, you can take that clutch basket apart and shim the springs, rewelld the rivets and rattle is gone!!! if need i can do that for you pretty cheap, done it on my 1000 race bike.

matt
 
doing anything except for replacing the basket is just beating a sore sausage...
and yes the 83's had an extra plate steel backed fibers that did damage just like all the extra plate "racing" clutches.
some good info in this thread but a lot of bad info also...:-\\\
 
blowerbike said:
doing anything except for replacing the basket is just beating a sore sausage...
and yes the 83's had an extra plate steel backed fibers that did damage just like all the extra plate "racing" clutches.
some good info in this thread but a lot of bad info also...:-\\\
Click to expand...

You missed us!
Tell us the bad advice. I respect your knowledge. No BS
 
Little update for ya (and maybe hopefully a little advice)

So I pulled the clutch from my parts bike. That hub also has indentations from the plates. But they are not nearly as bad as the original clutch shown in the pictures. So I'm thinking the spare clutch is workable.

BUT... as it seems with a lot of these GS1100's (from what I have been reading) 1/2 the springs are lose and rattle. So, what is the effect of the rattling springs? Will it just make noise? Or will it affect performance or make the clutch hard to operate?

I was hoping to not spend a fortune getting this thing back on the road. But at the same time, I want a bike I can be confident in for a number of years. In other words I planned on keeping and riding this thing (since I can't afford a Katana :D). But it certainly will not be logging many miles (too many other things to ride and I don't ride in the rain cuz I'm a wus :-\\\)

Options? Thoughts? Comments?
 
The springs buffer the flex in the hub and can come out which will wreck havoc since the oil pump is driven by the backing plate.
I'd rebuild the hub.
 
63ronin said:
Little update for ya (and maybe hopefully a little advice)

So I pulled the clutch from my parts bike. That hub also has indentations from the plates. But they are not nearly as bad as the original clutch shown in the pictures. So I'm thinking the spare clutch is workable.

BUT... as it seems with a lot of these GS1100's (from what I have been reading) 1/2 the springs are lose and rattle. So, what is the effect of the rattling springs? Will it just make noise? Or will it affect performance or make the clutch hard to operate?

I was hoping to not spend a fortune getting this thing back on the road. But at the same time, I want a bike I can be confident in for a number of years. In other words I planned on keeping and riding this thing (since I can't afford a Katana :D). But it certainly will not be logging many miles (too many other things to ride and I don't ride in the rain cuz I'm a wus :-\\\)

Options? Thoughts? Comments?
Click to expand...

the result could be an exploded clutch basket/broken engine cases/ and possibly oil on your rear tire and road rash or death..
there you have it.
as chef said...it needs an HD backing plate kit to be 100% sure of no future failures...or a nice stock/semi tight basket to replace it with(normal riding only).
shimming the springs and re-welding does not make it any stronger, it just gives a person a false sense of security.:-\\\
 
well KAtman posted this exact how to on his website and it was intended to stop the loose springs from rattling around it the pocket of the hub. And as of now this was just a stock bike that the OP was trying to resolve an issue of spring rattle. Not build a racebike. So in the interest of the usual DIY-er I posted a tip on how to remove the spring rattle on these bikes from an experience that I and other GS riders have done.
I am sorry for sharing knowledge to members of an online community. I only was hoping to help a guy out with a tip that i learned and felt prudent to share.

Ronin, feel free to use this tip,and know that it will cure your spring rattle that you originally were trying to fix!!!
 
you don't get it but that's ok........
i only posted what me and other member's was thinking....i'm not good at sugar coating.
 
blowerbike said:
you don't get it but that's ok........
i only posted what me and other member's was thinking....i'm not good at sugar coating.
Click to expand...

Please give your option so I can argue with it as I have already made up my mind. :(
 
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