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GS450 Charging Woes

  • Thread starter Thread starter jeffasaurus2
  • Start date Start date
J

jeffasaurus2

Guest
Hello all,

So I've got my '82 450T that's started to give me charging issues. It's a daily rider and my primary mode of transportation, hasn't been giving me any issues up until this evening. In fact I rode it earlier today, probably 6 miles round trip, without issue.

So, I've had a wicked oil leak from the clutch push rod seal, finally got around to replacing all the seals under the clutch push rod cover, (Push Rod, Gear Selector, and the shaft that holds the sprocket's seals), changed the oil, buttoned everything up, started it a couple times in the driveway to check oil levels and then proceeded to take it for a ride.

Made it probably 1/2 mile before the bike started to die on me, and then did die. Made it home and started a couple checks, not charging.

Now I started to run through the chart provided in the stator papers and everything seems to check out so far, I haven't done thorough tests considering it was after 9pm and there are kids next door.

Couple questions,
- Could it be possibly that I just pulled something loose while I was working under the side cover?
- If so, where should I be looking for loose connections or unsoldered joints?
- On my (cheap) multimeter I started checking VAC, set at 200V. The readings were at 7.7 on the stator. Is this a bad reading or could it simply be that my multimeter is giving the reading of 77V as 7.7?

If you're still reading, I'd appreciate any input you could provide!
 
Anything we would say is just guesses. Test the bike and go from there.
 
Figured as much. If my stator isn't putting out the correct AC Voltage, what could I expect for a bad reading? Something as low as 7.7?
 
I have to leave it to you to figure out the ins and outs of YOUR multimeter, but 7.7 AC ...that is REALLY bad. Test for a grounded "leg" of your stator.

of course, loose connections are a possibility! always check this

but otherwise here's an example: when my stator was internally shorted (burned insulation but not grounding ) I saw ~20 ACvolts at 4000rpm. The voltage will vary per rpm of course.
note that RPM is important information to share. Are you freaking out at idle readings? How do we know?
An internally shorted stator can still charge your battery a LITTLE if the AC output is above ,oh, say,13volts....that is to say, more than a half volt above the battery's voltage. more or less AND depending on how many coils or legs are shorting...MY stator was still charging the battery, but not keeping up with the bike's usage unless all the lights were off....

There are three wires from stator so there are three "legs" in these stators and AC output from each leg will vary, depending on their condition. a small difference is no worry.
 
Do a "quick test" and report the numbers for further diagnostic help
 
Ok! So, for the Stator; There is no continuity between the three 'yellows' and ground and all wires read right around 0.9-1.0 Ohms between each other. For the third Stator test: At 5-6k RPM the VAC reads at 8.1 for the yellow/G-w and Yellow/B-w wires, the G/W-B/W wires however read 5.6. So - Uneven readings between wires and much much lower than 60Vac = Stator.

Considering that there are no continuity issues should I bother to look for any wire breaks/issues? Or should I just replace the beast?
 
I would think that about 50% of the people that do stator test have some issue or problem in either measuring or diagnosing the condition of their stator. For that reason I suggest the "Quick Test" Before coing anything else. But if you believe your measurements then go ahead at swap it out.
 
I'd confirm what voltages your R/R are putting out as well to start with, do the quick test like Jim says.

If your stator is old and hasn't been replaced good chance it's dead, but best to be sure first.

If you do have to replace it, do yourself a favour and get one of the Polaris SH775 R/R's to go with it. Should help the next stator last a long time.
 
The battery is known good, double checked for sanity's sake. Looks like everything points to the stator, the R/R tests working for now, I'll certainly upgrade it to something better soon but for now I've just ordered the stator from Electrosport. I've got a trip coming up in a week that I've been planning for a while and I'm not going to let this stop me!

I'll be back to post results as soon as the stator is in, Hopefully Saturday afternoon!
 
Do yourself a favor and heed pete's advice- there have been some reports of new ES stators overwhelming the typical shunt R/R - after your trip, plan on upgrading to the series SH775 asap; future charging problems just might be a low probability.
 
jeffasaurus2 said:
Ok! So, for the Stator; There is no continuity between the three 'yellows' and ground and all wires read right around 0.9-1.0 Ohms between each other. For the third Stator test: At 5-6k RPM the VAC reads at 8.1 for the yellow/G-w and Yellow/B-w wires, the G/W-B/W wires however read 5.6. So - Uneven readings between wires and much much lower than 60Vac = Stator.

Considering that there are no continuity issues should I bother to look for any wire breaks/issues? Or should I just replace the beast?
Click to expand...

wow. given the readings are that bad, I bet the stator is a nasty burned varnish black. I'd take the stator cover off and look . Mine, was really obvious and it still had some output despite it...
Steve (here on the forum) suggests tipping the bike a bit to limit the amount of oil that comes out when you remove the cover but I just did an oil change then anyways.

You will most likely want a new cover-gasket too, but you can take the cover off several times several times with a newish gasket if you are reasonable putting those screws back in .I make mine from the rolls of paper you get at an autoparts store.

ps.as tom203,pete and the "papers" will inform you, given your connections are good, you will be wanting to look very closely at a new regulator/rectifier too.

as an aside, Personally, I'm developing a theory that the stock ones, hidden under the sidecover, were very poorly ventilated, whatever their INTRINSIC faults are. Other bikes put their regulator/rectifiers out in the breeze.
 
Last edited:
Yeah, I don't quite understand how they're so low either. It was working just fine up until a point and then it went all at once! The R/R checks out according to the stator papers and every other R/R test I could find online, I'll certainly be replacing it after this trip though, I'd rather not burn my shiny new stator up quickly.

Unfortunately I did an oil change when I replaced those seals, so I'll be draining and re-using the oil that I take out, as it is two days old.

As for the gasket, I replaced it in February I believe, (or sometime early this year), I've had pretty good luck with just reusing fairly new gaskets like that, we'll see!

And as for the R/R hiding under the side cover, I've actually relocated all my electronics under the seat, The R/R sits on the underside of the electronics tray, right above what would be the airbox had I not switched to pods, and receives plenty of decent airflow over it.
 
So UPS blows, long story short - Should've been here Friday, didn't show up until today. Luckily replacing the stator is an easy task.

With the new stator installed I was able to read ample VAC across the three 'yellows', the system now charges the battery! Reads ~13.7 @ 5000RPMS.

It even seems like the bike is running better now, which makes sense; I've been riding with that dwindling stator for quite a while now. This could all very well be in my head, but the bike Idles more consistently, Lights appear a touch brighter, and the bike seems to pull a little harder.

I must say that the Electrosport stator seems to be of much higher quality than the one I pulled off the bike, (probably the original,) and the three 'yellow' wires are actually the same colors as the OEM Suzuki coloring. So far I'm very impressed.

Here's the beauty that was my old stator:

Stator_zps21819724.png


Any guesses if this is the original?
 
It looks rewound, the factory winds seemed to be a bit cleaner windings than that. 13.7v at 5000 rpm is still low. It could be a Low battery or bad connections. Only a "Quick Test" will be sble to tell.
 
It may have been a little lower RPM, I'll go double check the readings in an hour or two.
 
It's pushing right around 13.8, which I'm comfortable with. I'm sure that the battery is OK, and there probably are a couple connections that could use some cleaning up.
 
Sorry if this is repeat information, but we get a LOT of charging system threads around here and many people miss out on many of the critical details.

It's critical to rewire your charging system, namely, route the stator wires directly into the R/R. Do NOT plug your stator into the factory harness. The factory wiring takes a convoluted path with one of the stator legs feeding up to the head lamp switch, then back down to the R/R. This extra wiring builds resistance over time which not only causes charging system problems, but also can also physically damage the main harness due to over heating. And NO this is not an idle threat.

Solder or use large spade terminals to connect your stator directly to the R/R. Also, make sure the R/R is grounded to both the frame and the negative terminal of the battery. Suzuki's R/R grounding often attaches through the battery box or some electrical panel, often rubber mounted, and this path is unreliable at best.

Last thing is to check the harness for resistance between the R/R power output (red wire) and the battery (though the fuse box). Jim (Posplyer) details the critical test as contained in his updated Stator Paper tests. This is NOT optional testing since resistance in the circuit will add heat into the system and undercharge your battery. On my bike I was loosing .8 volts between the R/R and the battery. After cleaning all the terminals (removing the brass terminals from the plastic shells and dipping them in vinegar or HCl, then rinsing and reinstalling into the shell) the lost voltage was restored.

Spend the time to update the system now, or you may have problems later. Updating to that series R/R is also a very worthwhile project since it will protect the system from future problems.
 
Thanks for the information, these things I will certainly take care of.
 
Nessism said:
Sorry if this is repeat information, but we get a LOT of charging system threads around here and many people miss out on many of the critical details.

It's critical to rewire your charging system, namely, route the stator wires directly into the R/R. Do NOT plug your stator into the factory harness. The factory wiring takes a convoluted path with one of the stator legs feeding up to the head lamp switch, then back down to the R/R. This extra wiring builds resistance over time which not only causes charging system problems, but also can also physically damage the main harness due to over heating. And NO this is not an idle threat.

Solder or use large spade terminals to connect your stator directly to the R/R. Also, make sure the R/R is grounded to both the frame and the negative terminal of the battery. Suzuki's R/R grounding often attaches through the battery box or some electrical panel, often rubber mounted, and this path is unreliable at best.

Last thing is to check the harness for resistance between the R/R power output (red wire) and the battery (though the fuse box). Jim (Posplyer) details the critical test as contained in his updated Stator Paper tests. This is NOT optional testing since resistance in the circuit will add heat into the system and undercharge your battery. On my bike I was loosing .8 volts between the R/R and the battery. After cleaning all the terminals (removing the brass terminals from the plastic shells and dipping them in vinegar or HCl, then rinsing and reinstalling into the shell) the lost voltage was restored.

Spend the time to update the system now, or you may have problems later. Updating to that series R/R is also a very worthwhile project since it will protect the system from future problems.
Click to expand...

It is just like the movie "Ground hog Day"

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showpost.php?p=1904537&postcount=10
 
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