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GS450L wiring issues

  • Thread starter Thread starter phillipjohnw
  • Start date Start date
P

phillipjohnw

Guest
Hey GSR,

My 450 is acting up. It was running yesterday and then suddenly died while I was riding it back. After some testing I'm sure it is not getting any spark. However before it suddenly died the turn signals quit flashing, just a solid light, and I had no low beam headlight, my highs worked but not the lows. I have no idea if these problems are related or not. Hopefully you guys can help me figure out these problems.
 
Welcome to GSR.


phillipjohnw said:
Hey GSR,

...
.. However before it suddenly died the turn signals quit flashing, just a solid light, .....
Click to expand...


Assuming that signals worked before, this is Classic symptoms of charging system problems, or maybe battery is failing. Low battery voltage causing flasher to flash slow and then not flash at all. THen later battery voltage even lower and ignition doesnt work.

Welcome to having an 80s motorcycle.
Welcome to having an 80s Suzuki.

Put battery on charger (1 amp or 1 1/2 amp) for a few hours, and see if things different. Maybe can get it started then.

You have a volt meter (multi meter)? Will want to check charging system.
Check battery voltage with bike off, and then again with engine running at about 3 - 4 thousand.
Tell us what you find.


phillipjohnw said:
...
.. ..., and I had no low beam headlight, my highs worked but not the lows. .....
Click to expand...

No not related.
Probably just that low beam filiment in bulb is burnt out. But could be wiring problem or problem with hi-low swtich.
White wire at headlight (and at hi-low switch) is the low beam.
Yellow wire is the high beam.
Blk/wht at the headlight is ground, but no problem there since the high beam works.


.

Put your year and model in signature line, and put location in profile (goto User CP) then that shows up in your every posting.
And maybe someone nearby can help you out.

.
 
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I don't think it is the battery because I had just bought a new one and had them charge it. I'm really befuddled by this problem because I know for a fact everything was working right a few days ago. I was riding it and my throttle cable snapped. After fixing that, a major headache I might add, I fired it up and it ran fine except for the turn signals and low beams. That is until it just stopped running. It turns over just fine and is getting gas, but no spark. I even had the spark plugs out with my thumb on the end and no shock, arguably the worst way to test it but sometimes I'm not the brightest. I guess my next question would be should I assume its the coils automatically or could it be the ignitor? I've got the stuff to do the coil relay mod and I'm going to do that to see if it helps, but what should my next move be? Thanks for the help.
 
phillipjohnw said:
I don't think it is the battery because I had just bought a new one and had them charge it......
......
Click to expand...

Okay, good. So no real reason to suspect the battery has some internal problem like plates shorting out agaiinst each other, or "corrsion" built up on plates or something like that that can happen to old battery.

SO it did run after you replaced the throttle cable. Good, so didnt inadvertantly cause some definate problem with ignition.
But maybe it did sit for a few days during all this.
And maybe did do something to charging system while you were working on it, but I cant think of what in charging system would be in area of throttle cable. Well, other than maybe the black/white wire in wiring harness that needs to be connected to frame somewhere (top of frame behind battery?) SOmetimes that wire gets rusty-brittle and can be knocked loose from the frame. THat black/white wire in wiring harness needs to be grounded as one of the other ends of it needs to provided the ground to the regulator/rectifyer mounted on the battery box. (ew, lot of details there.)

But what I was saying, about the battery, is that the symptoms you described are the classic sysmptoms of battery voltage going low over a day or two or three (depending on how many starts with starter motor and how long it sat and how far you rode) because the charging system is not working to keep the battery charged. Maybe first notice it didnt seem to start as quickly as normal and maybe it started when let off the starter button, then later notice the turn signals flash slower, then later notice the turn signals dont flash but just stay on, then notice not running as weel, then notice that it will not start at all this time, or did barley start but notice are dead on side of road somewhere. All symptoms of charging system failure, and ran for soome time just off the battery, but battery getting run down over all this, with different things happening as it gets lower, untill it cant run the ignition system any more.

And I see another problem. And that is we are dealing with an electrical problem. Can not "see" with your eyeballs to "see" what you typically need to "see" to troubleshoot an electrcial problem. Need a volt meter (multi meter) to "see" what you need to "see".

Maybe can deduce a thing or two by putting on a battery charger for a few hour and then "see" if things are different. Have suggested that.

Have suggested that need to have volt meter to check charging sytem.

Problem I detect here is that we are talking about an electrcail problem, and you have made no statement about any voltages.

You have a 30 year old bike. You could occasionaly need a volt meter.
You have a bike designed 30 years ago. You could occasionally need a volt meter.
You have an 80s Suzuki, you will need a volt meter.

Glad to help you how ever I can (as are many other folks here).

It may seem to be turning over fine, but maybe going slower and cant really tell, and maybe battery not charged and starter motor is loading down the battery to where voltage is too low to run the ignition.

Need to check battery voltage with engine off, and again wioth engine running.
Maybe can get it started if put on charger for a good while.

.
 
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check the battery to see if the water is boiled out.

it might have been overcharging.

boiled out the water...

burned out the headlight..

blew the ignitor..


we can stand around and guess all nite but



and ooh yeah.. buy a voltmeter so you don't need to guess!!

AND if you had the tank off to do the throtle cable , you might have disturbed the wiring connectors and they might not be plugged in securely. believe me.. it is something simple..we just need to figure out what.
 
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Sorry about being so vague. I was just sitting in traffic when I sent the last message. I dug into it a little tonight. As for the voltages there is no voltage getting to the left coil. The right one had around 11 volts and was hot to the touch. I don't know if the heat is normal and while the voltage is lower than the battery it seems like it should work. Do you have any suggestions for the lack of potential in the left coil?
 
it may help to put your bike model in your signature or let us know what it is.


but with KEY ON you should have B+ ( battery voltage) on the white/orange wires on BOTH coils all times...stat there. voltmeter is necessary. Sears has good nice ones for like 25 bucks . harbor freight has 'em for 4 bucks..Ibuy them there cause I loose them or break them faster than heck!!
 
phillipjohnw said:
Sorry about being so vague. I was just sitting in traffic when I sent the last message. I dug into it a little tonight. As for the voltages there is no voltage getting to the left coil. The right one had around 11 volts and was hot to the touch. I don't know if the heat is normal and while the voltage is lower than the battery it seems like it should work. Do you have any suggestions for the lack of potential in the left coil?
Click to expand...

Ah, you do have voltmeter and know how to use it. Good.

Both coils should have pretty much same voltage since is powered by same thing on pretty much the same wire. THe org/wht wire should be same on both. Wire just goes from one to the other, so something came apart.

But this is all in addition to the symptoms you mentioned in original post.
 
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Well it looks like I'll be digging through the wiring this weekend. Thanks for the help guys, I was pretty confused due to the turn signals and ignition.

Tom just curious, but how far are you from Erie, PA? I'm originally from there and that's where my 450 is from.
 
phillipjohnw said:
Well it looks like I'll be digging through the wiring this weekend. Thanks for the help guys, I was pretty confused due to the turn signals and ignition.

Tom just curious, but how far are you from Erie, PA? I'm originally from there and that's where my 450 is from.
Click to expand...

I'm right in Mercer!!! halfway down 79 to the 'burg..
 
Dang I wish I had known that like 2 years ago when I put this heap together. I've come to find out that I have the redheaded stepchild of the gs family.

Anyways back to the problem, I still can't get a spark. I'm going to attempt the coil relay this weekend and hopefully that fixes the issue. If not I'm out of ideas and will probably have to start looking into aftermarket stuff.
 
phillipjohnw said:
......
......

Anyways back to the problem, I still can't get a spark. I'm going to attempt the coil relay this weekend and hopefully that fixes the issue. If not I'm out of ideas and will probably have to start looking into aftermarket stuff.
Click to expand...

you said problem was no power to one coil. That would be a problem with the wiring to the coil, not a problem with the coil. Replacing the coil would not help, well, unless you also happened to also fix the wiring problem without knowing it.

.
 
Well I did the coil relay mod and still nothing. I guess the question now is do I look for an oem ignitor off of the ebay, or try to find a dynatech unit that can work with my bike? I'm hesitant to get a used one off of the ebay, because you know it could just break again, but then again there doesn't seem to be any other option.
 
Have you checked to see how low the battery voltage goes while cranking the starter motor?
(I know you said it is fairly new battery.)


.
 
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Just caught up with this one... been there done that!

Firstly, make sure the ground for your ignitor is 100% good.

Measure the impedance (resistance on the multimeter) of each signal generator coil, they should be 60 - 80ohms each.

As the guys say you must have voltage on the orange/white wire of both coils *all the time* when the ignition and kill switch are on.

There are tests in the manuals for all of the above and also for the ignitor.

Given how difficult it is to find a good working ignitor for these, do the tests first, and if it proves the ignitor is faulty, then go the Dynatek DS3-3C route.

This will bolt straight in but when you buy it, ask for the spacer as well otherwise you will have the rotor flapping about on the bolt due to it being designed for the earlier points setups. They should know what you're talking about, tell them Pete from the GS Resources told you to get the spacer :)

You will need to run an oil pressure sensor wire in addition to this as it sits under the timing cover.

Also, make sure you run the Dynatek coils, the stock ones are a no go with it.

I found the harness on the Dynatek about 2 inches shorter than I'd like so I made a mini harness to join the coils, and the coils are also larger than stock so some creative routing is needed there.

Once she's up and running, do the charging system checks first thing to ensure you're not just going to overcharge and fail it all again...
 
Ok, so I got out the old electrometer and tested the coils. The battery read just under 11 volts while cranking. The coils again had proper resistance. Pete where would I measure the signal generator resistance? I looked in my clymer manual but can't find where to measure it at. Thanks for all the help guys.

ps. Pete how much would the entire dyna system cost?
 
To test the signal generator coils, you need to disconnect the four pin plug from the rest of the harness. The harness for the signal generator comes from the timing cover on the right.

You'll want page 178 in the Clymer for the testing procedures for this and the ignitor.

With the signal generator test, the Clymer diagram is a bit misleading. Don't test between Green and ground and Blue and ground, instead you'll see there's (I think from memory) a black wire common to both coils on the signal generator plate. Test between Green and Black then Blue and Black.

The fourth wire under there (Green with yellow tracer) is for the oil pressure sensor switch. This is the extra wire you'll need to run if you do end up going the Dynatek route.

As for the Dynatek, you guys get 'em cheap... $309.99 on their website, and you'll need some plug wires as well.
 
Well that sucks, I had typed up a long thing about what happened, but the computer decided not to post it. Here's the quick run down.

I did the S/G tests, both how the book said and how Pete said. Both showed an open or break somewhere between the generator and the ignitor unit. Does anyone know if there are any fuses possibly hidden in the wiring between the two? Or is it the signal genny that's toast?

As for the dyna system, I think thats out of the budget. That's over half of what I paid for the bike. Is there anything that I can adapt from another bike to make this heap run? If not I think this bike may be destined for the classified parts listings.
 
There are no fuses.
The signal generator seldom goes out.
There is a connector between your signal generator and your igniter. I would trace the wire, paying special attention to the connector.
 
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