GS850G 1981 with runaway throttle... scary.. whats wrong with it?

[04colyZQ8]

I figured out my 8500rpm miss... bad grounds, not charging! Bike wouldn't restart hot, and then cold cranked over slow, anyway its back to its old self again..better then, its been since I've owned it.

Still has a miss right at 9000rpm I seemed to have moved it up, but I can live with that.

I still need to mess with the mixture screws, It doesn't respond well, your supposed to have the rpm raise or lower, I don't notice much difference? I tried 3-1/4 turns out, and all the pooping on decell went away, but it was kinda boggy. I turned it in a 1/4, still boggy, no decal popping. Now they are at 2-3/4 turn, and it pops a bit but not like it used too, and still seems sluggish from idle to mid range. I think it needs to go leaner still, am I right to assume turning in clockwise leans out the mix? You want pooping on decal correct?? BTW my right pipes baffles are blown to sh*t.

I have a motion pro carb balancer on the way too

 

[roeme]

Phew, your posts read like they've been written by a squirrel high on sugar.

I was going to recommend to take it a bit easier, do one thing at a time, be methodical, etc., but it looks like you're beginning to do that on your own.

You want pooping on decal correct??

I usually poop only I if I need to emergency brake because someone swerves into my lane...jokes aside, you meant to say popping on deceleration?
I don't think that should happen on a GS with stock pipes.

I think it needs to go leaner still

From what you describe, I'd say so as well...however...hm. Since you have the carb balancer on the way, do the balancing as a next step. If you get rid of the misses, great - but I don't think there's much chance for that. So, if you still have issues, it really is time to have a look at the valves. I saw that you did 5000 km's ago - but as per the manual, that's exactly the interval for checking the valves. So by the book, you'd need to look at them anyway.

I don't say this without reason; my brother's bike exhibited similar symptoms to what you describe: keeps missing at WOT, hesitating and bogging elsewhere. Kept fiddling with the carb, not to much avail (the issues at best just came back a little later). After we finally got the necessary stuff to do the valves properly, it was smooth sailing.

In any case, it's one thing you can cross off the list of things that could be wrong.

 

[04colyZQ8]

Phew, your posts read like they've been written by a squirrel high on sugar.

I was going to recommend to take it a bit easier, do one thing at a time, be methodical, etc., but it looks like you're beginning to do that on your own.



I usually poop only I if I need to emergency brake because someone swerves into my lane...jokes aside, you meant to say popping on deceleration?
I don't think that should happen on a GS with stock pipes.



From what you describe, I'd say so as well...however...hm. Since you have the carb balancer on the way, do the balancing as a next step. If you get rid of the misses, great - but I don't think there's much chance for that. So, if you still have issues, it really is time to have a look at the valves. I saw that you did 5000 km's ago - but as per the manual, that's exactly the interval for checking the valves. So by the book, you'd need to look at them anyway.

I don't say this without reason; my brother's bike exhibited similar symptoms to what you describe: keeps missing at WOT, hesitating and bogging elsewhere. Kept fiddling with the carb, not to much avail (the issues at best just came back a little later). After we finally got the necessary stuff to do the valves properly, it was smooth sailing.

In any case, it's one thing you can cross off the list of things that could be wrong.

Yes, I can be in a big hurray, and or posting to late at night.. I suppose your right, high maintance theese bikes are, I spend more time working on it then I do ridding it!!

Needs new tires again soon, just put them on 5000kms ago. Anyway I will shim the valves and try to fix the oil breather, and valve cover leaks! I've tried fixing those leaks three times now! One bolt on the breather is stripped. I will heli coil it, and I'm going to silicone the crap out off it, useless oem Suzuki gaskets are not sealing dry!!!! I have never had this much trouble with oil leaks in my life!

I prefer to get the shim tool, and shim kit, last time I removed the cams each time to pull shims, I also made three trips to the dealer getting proper shims! What tool and shim kit to you guys recommend? Are the aftermarket shims hardened properly?

 

[Steve]

I prefer to get the shim tool, and shim kit, last time I removed the cams each time to pull shims, I also made three trips to the dealer getting proper shims! What tool and shim kit to you guys recommend? Are the aftermarket shims hardened properly?

Some prefer the official shim tool, many of us prefer a zip-tie, it's your choice. I have both, but can never get the 'tool' to work properly and have never been shown by someone who knows how to use it properly.

As for a "shim kit", you will go broke if you buy multiples of all available shims, just to have them on-hand. Your best bet is to check your clearances (follow the Suzuki manual for the proper procedure, yes, it DOES make a difference), then remove your shims ONE AT A TIME (do not rotate the engine unless there is a shim in every bucket) to see what they are. Compare the shim size with the clearance to see what you need, then contact the GSR Shim Club and arrange to have those sizes sent to you. If you want a convenient way to record all this information, feel free to take advantage of the offer in my signature.

.

 

[04colyZQ8]

Some prefer the official shim tool, many of us prefer a zip-tie, it's your choice. I have both, but can never get the 'tool' to work properly and have never been shown by someone who knows how to use it properly.

As for a "shim kit", you will go broke if you buy multiples of all available shims, just to have them on-hand. Your best bet is to check your clearances (follow the Suzuki manual for the proper procedure, yes, it DOES make a difference), then remove your shims ONE AT A TIME (do not rotate the engine unless there is a shim in every bucket) to see what they are. Compare the shim size with the clearance to see what you need, then contact the GSR Shim Club and arrange to have those sizes sent to you. If you want a convenient way to record all this information, feel free to take advantage of the offer in my signature.

.

zip tie?? I'm so far off on my milleage! I did the shims 12-13000 kms ago!! I was at 2.65-2.45mm on a few last time;( getting down to the wire, probably need new valve seats or grind the tops of the valves, soon? Smallest is 2.20? I think I'll order 2.35, 2.40, 2.45, 2.50, times 8? That should be what I need? For the next 15-20000, kms then likely got to pull the head

 

[bobgroger]

Your talking about the hard rubber boots that are molded over aluminum, with oring that goes to the head I used silicone between the flange and head, doubt they are leaking.? they are a nightmare to get on and off the carbs, I put soap , on them and lean into it for all I'm worth!!!!!!!!!!! horrible design. The rubbers between the air box, and carbs are new last year.

I guess I'll pull the carbs off, I have a spare rebuilt set.

The carbs go in pretty easily if they aren't 37 years old. If they are original, they need replacing even if they aren't falling apart yet.
Also check to be sure idle doesn't go way up when turning bars all the way to the right, that indicates throttle cable is too tight

 

[bobgroger]

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?122394-GS-Valve-Shim-Club&highlight=shim+club

 

[Burque73]

zip tie??

http://www.thegsresources.com/_foru...o-special-tool-required-to-remove-valve-shims!

 

[04colyZQ8]

Ok thanks I'll check out the links later. Full left, full right, is good, no more hanging throttle, it went away after I rebuilt the carbs.

So did the math.. bought bike with 37,442kms shimmed the valves. Had a spill on the freeway and broke the cluster at 42,875kms.I bought a used cluster out of Holland with 46,262kms on it. The bike now has 53,186 kms on it.

So 42875-37442 = 5433kms
and 53186-46262= 6924kms
Total = 12,357 kms since the last time the valves were shimmed No wonder she is crying for help.... especially the way I ride it.. the bike always sees 6000rpm shifts, and a lot of 7500-8500rpm shifts, and a decant amount of 9100rpm shifts.

On side not my tires need to be replaced soon they barely have 6500kms on them, and they are only about a year old.

Anyone no the average amount of valve rise. example .05mm per 5000kms ? Just trying to get a sense of what shims to get, My last ones were 2.45-2.65mm I think?

 

[04colyZQ8]

Well I just pulled the valve cover leaking.. anyway!

Bikes still warm was run 4 hours ago. So I'll recheck tomorrow when cold, but I have clearance, so that can't be the problem?

ex 0.07mm, 0.08mm, 0.07mm, 0.07mm
shims 2.65x, 2.70, 2.60, 2.55mm

in 0.11mm, 0.11mm, 0.09mm, 0.10mm
shims 2.54, 2.60x, 2.60, 2.54mm

the record from when I shimmed it last;
ex 0.06mm, 0.06mm, 0.06mm, 0.06mm
in 0.08mm, 0.08mm, 0.08mm, 0.08mm


I'm thinking the gaps larger do to it still being warm, it from what I see this bikes pretty healthy, and nothing here should cause a missfire?

 

[04colyZQ8]

Bad news is plug #2 is stripped the threads are damaged in the head, this could be causing the miss, looks like 14mm plugs? Can I heli coil in place?

 

[Nessism]

Are you checking the valve clearance by pointing the cam away from the bucket and then slipping in the feeler gauge? Or do you follow the factory service manual of positioning the cams and checking the valves in adjacent pairs?

 

[04colyZQ8]

Followed clymer instructions, keep rotating the lobes pointing up. Then slip in feeler gauge

 

[Nessism]

Followed clymer instructions, keep rotating the lobes pointing up. Then slip in feeler gauge

That's the incorrect method. It results in more clearance indicating than is actually the case by about .02 mm. Based on your measurements you are good to go on valve clearance regardless though.

 

[Steve]

I think I'll order 2.35, 2.40, 2.45, 2.50, times 8? That should be what I need? For the next 15-20000, kms then likely got to pull the head

You must have a LOT more money than most of us. We still have no idea where you are, except you keep talking in Kilometers and that you ordered some parts from Holland, but here in the USA, new OEM shims retail for about $15, but can be found at online suppliers for just over $11. That would be about $90 for each set of eight, and you are talking about four sets for a total of about $360, all based on a "MAYBE"??? As mentioned previously, find out what you have (yes, I have seen subsequent post showing sizes), then order what you need.

Bikes still warm was run 4 hours ago. So I'll recheck tomorrow when cold, but I have clearance, so that can't be the problem? ... I'm thinking the gaps larger do to it still being warm, it from what I see this bikes pretty healthy, ...

There is speculation on what the actual clearance is while the bike is at operating temperature, but I don't know if anyone has actually checked for comparison. One of the reasons that the manual says to check the clearances COLD is that it is easily reapeated. If they said to check them "warm", the question would be "HOW warm?". Yes, your WARM clearances show that you do have clearance, but you won't know if it is enough clearance until you check them at the proper temperature.

We keep offering help by telling you what needs to be done and offering links that show you HOW it needs to be done, yet there is continuing resistance.
Good luck with your project, let us know if it turns out.

.

 

[04colyZQ8]

You must have a LOT more money than most of us. We still have no idea where you are, except you keep talking in Kilometers and that you ordered some parts from Holland, but here in the USA, new OEM shims retail for about $15, but can be found at online suppliers for just over $11. That would be about $90 for each set of eight, and you are talking about four sets for a total of about $360, all based on a "MAYBE"??? As mentioned previously, find out what you have (yes, I have seen subsequent post showing sizes), then order what you need.




There is speculation on what the actual clearance is while the bike is at operating temperature, but I don't know if anyone has actually checked for comparison. One of the reasons that the manual says to check the clearances COLD is that it is easily reapeated. If they said to check them "warm", the question would be "HOW warm?". Yes, your WARM clearances show that you do have clearance, but you won't know if it is enough clearance until you check them at the proper temperature.

We keep offering help by telling you what needs to be done and offering links that show you HOW it needs to be done, yet there is continuing resistance.
Good luck with your project, let us know if it turns out.

.

What do you mean? Everything you guys suggest I try? You guys say check the valve clearances I did. You said join the shim club, I've looked at the page, and haven't pm'd yet since, I don't need shims yet.

You guys say check the plugs, electrical system, clean the carbs, replace the rubber plugs in the carbs for your pilot jet, ballance the carbs. I've done all of this, plugs are in my desk I'll install them before I ballance, picked up motion pro carb ballance tool. Just waiting to fix the spark plug threads, before I recheck the valve clearances cold. Then reassemble, and ballance the carbs!

I was unaware the clymer manual was incorrect???? How would I know that? Then why not say here is a link to the only way to check clearance, and heads up the clymer is wrong!!! I'm trying to follow all the steps? Why do you say I'm resisting?


I've shimmed the valves before, and on dirt bikes, I was confident how to do it, just that I wanted a tool this time. How was I to know the clymer is wrong??

Anyway, Ed, thanks for letting me know I'm good clearance wise. I have no problems rechecking cold, and the Suzuki/gsresorces.com method, as the cover is still off so was that method linked to me and I just overlooked it? I read a link saying to use zap straps? Didn't catch anything about which way to point the lobes?

Thanks again for all your help, everyone.

What about my stripped plug? Time sert? 14mm 1.25 5/8" long? In place using grease?

 

[Nessism]

Timeserts are best option in my opinion. Downside is the high cost.

 

[roeme]

Still reeling from failed PO helicoils; my vote goes into the timesert hat as well.

 

[Steve]

Still reeling from failed PO helicoils; my vote goes into the timesert hat as well.

My only experience with a Timesert was one that came out with the spark plug. Came from the PO, of course, so I have no idea whether it was installed correctly, especially considering some of the other stuff we found on the bike.

Leave a BIG hole when it comes out.

.

 

[04colyZQ8]

Darn that's no good! I'm looking at kd tools, looks like a knock off time sert, all the ones I've looked at, are solid coils like the time serts.

Can it be done in place? Without pulling the head?