GSX1100 Katana indicator problem...

[tfb]

G'day all,
Have just been busily renovating the old Katana... you can read up on it all here if you like. The old girl is nearly back on the road.
However... a problem now exists with the indicators. With all globes in, battery fully charged etc. you go to put the left indicator on, and...

• Both the rear indicators come on, but don't blink.
• At the same time, both the indicator lights in the instrument panel come on, too.
• But neither of the front indicators light up.
• Then if you go to disconnect one of the front globes (it doesn't matter which one), then left rear indicator alone is lit up (but still unblinking).
• Also, the left intrument panel indicator is lit up along with it.

The same scenario happens when you go to put the right indicator on.
So what's going on here? I've never encountered a problem like it. I was thinking that some sort of short-out in the wiring loom is possible with me working on it, but it doesn't seem like a typical short to me.
I should add that I have 21W globes for the front indicators, and 6W at the rear. I just changed out a pair of 23W globes from the rear, but the problem was already there before I did the swap-out.
So do I have a short-out, or is the blinker-box stuffed, or...
Any help or suggestions greatly appreciated.
Cheers,
Mike.

 

[koolaid_kid]

I suspect you have a combination of issues, and it is not a short nor the flasher (blinker box).
First, the flasher requires a certain load in order to flash. 2 6W bulbs is not going to do it.
You need one front bulb and one rear bulb to do it. I do not recall the exact load required, but I seem to recall that it is in the mid-20W range.
What you probably have is some cross-linked or disconnected wires in your wiring harness. Do you have a wiring diagram? You need to get your multimeter out and start debugging the wires for voltage. Somewhere in your wiring harness there are some boo-boos (technical term).

 

[tfb]

Thanks for that. OK, I checked the manual and indeed, 21W globes front and rear are the standard spec. So I have reverted to this.
There were some dodgy connections in the globe holders of both front indicators, so I have now cleaned them up and put in a fresh pair of globes.
Still I have some wretched problem. It has now settled down to this scenario:
When I put either the left or right indicator on, both front indicators light up at the same time... so there seems to be some short-out between the front indicator circuits somewhere. I have systematically poked, prodded and wiggled the wiring loom, checked connectors, etc. but I can't get any clue as to where the problem/ crossed connection might be.
Short of unwrapping the entire loom, I don't have a clue where to start... ... and I don't realistically expect anyone on the forum to tell me where in the wiring the problem is! Might just have to get a motorcycle lekky on to the job.

 

[John Kat]

The easiest way to solve this is to get back to the basics.
The way it works is the following:
The +12V from the battery goes to the blinker box ( it turns the current on and off after a certain amount of time given the right load).
From there the current goes to the left handle switch that routes the current either to the back and front LH indicators including the lamp on the dash panel or else to the RH indicators.
If both the left and right hand indicators light up together, it means that there is a short between the two wires leading to them.
I would suspect it comes from the left handle switch itself.
To make things easier, I would disconnect the "turn signal controller" as the system should operate without it connected

 

[tfb]

Well I had a *very* frustrating time tonight... Yes, I had figured there's some sort of short between the LH and RH indicator circuits -- but WHERE? So I ended up taking apart the entire wiring harness from one end to the other, but couldn't find any wires touching or playing up. They were all sitting loosely apart, but still there's current making it from one circuit to the other.

So then I turned to the switchgear... and I did recall that the Katana LH switchgear is a nightmare of a set-up, with umpteen tiny springs and ball bearings and goodness-knows-what packed into a small space, all just waiting to fly everywhere the moment you open it up. (How on earth they trained some poor soul in the factory to assemble these things has me mystified.)

So I carefully pulled it apart, but of course not carefully enough... BOINNGGGGG... bits shot everywhere. Having recovered the bits on my hands and knees, I spent the next hour trying to get the wretched thing back together. But of course that rotten 4-way thumb-switch just won't work the way it did...

So I've given up and will buy some new switch gear... hope that fixes the indicator problem too, as I can't think what else it could be.

As you suggest, John Kat, I did disconnect the auto-indicator-cancel box, but that hasn't made any difference to anything.

What a tiring, frustrating problem this is. If anyone has any other ideas, do tell.

 

[Carter Turk]

Did you put fresh globes (as you call them) in the back or only two up front.

Do you really need signals in Perth?

 

[John Kat]

Well I had a *very* frustrating time tonight... Yes, I had figured there's some sort of short between the LH and RH indicator circuits -- but WHERE? So I ended up taking apart the entire wiring harness from one end to the other, but couldn't find any wires touching or playing up. They were all sitting loosely apart, but still there's current making it from one circuit to the other.

So then I turned to the switchgear... and I did recall that the Katana LH switchgear is a nightmare of a set-up, with umpteen tiny springs and ball bearings and goodness-knows-what packed into a small space, all just waiting to fly everywhere the moment you open it up. (How on earth they trained some poor soul in the factory to assemble these things has me mystified.)

So I carefully pulled it apart, but of course not carefully enough... BOINNGGGGG... bits shot everywhere. Having recovered the bits on my hands and knees, I spent the next hour trying to get the wretched thing back together. But of course that rotten 4-way thumb-switch just won't work the way it did...

So I've given up and will buy some new switch gear... hope that fixes the indicator problem too, as I can't think what else it could be.

As you suggest, John Kat, I did disconnect the auto-indicator-cancel box, but that hasn't made any difference to anything.

What a tiring, frustrating problem this is. If anyone has any other ideas, do tell.

I'm sure it's the switchgear!
To confirm, test for continuity between the LH and RH signals with the switchgear disconnected.
On one of my GS's I replaced the original switchgear with an early GSXR one and it worked perfectly

 

[tfb]

Carter Turk, yes I put in fresh globes all around.
Either way now, I need new switch gear...
I do have some old GS1000 switchgear in the shed, but it looks pretty tatty and it may well have problems of its own. I suppose I could plod off to the wreckers and see what they've got lying around... but I would rather be secure in the knowledge that the switchgear is 100%. So I'll scout eBay etc. and take things from there.
The really annoying bit is that I was on the very cusp of victory with getting the old machine back together and on the road -- but then this wretched problem surfaced and it's kind of taken the shine off things... :-\\\

 

[ptexotik]

like how you cafe'd that seat on the banana !!
good luck with the elec gremlins. (did you try cleaning all switchgear and reassemble per a diagram? ... and disassembling these mechanisms inside a large ziploc bag can prevent too much BOIING.)

 

[tfb]

G'day ptexotic, thanks re. the seat, but it was a PO's handiwork! I like it too.

Well folks, the problem was NOT the switchgear. I know this because I just activated the indicators via the blue junction block down at the harness, and the problem of all the indicators lighting up is STILL THERE. Grrrrr.

Any further ideas? I am feeling like I will get some motorcycle lekky to REWIRE THE ENTIRE MACHINE before I set fire to the thing...

 

[Carter Turk]

I thought the banana was running all this time. Has it been sitting for a spell?

Know any gals named Joe in Perth?

No chance wires were crossed? I recall a similar situation on my wife's 1150, but that's all I recall.

Visited OZ last November, never thought I would get there. Only on the east side though.

 

[tfb]

G'day Carter Turk,

No, I had the old Kat apart in order to (i) fix 2nd gear, and (ii) repaint the exceedingly tatty frame. Renovation page here. Just finished it this afternoon as a matter of fact, so the page will be updated soon.

Well let me give y'all the latest on the Kat's indicator woes. This morning I phoned a motorcycle mechanic of great local repute, who assured me that "99% of the time, all indicators coming on is a short in the blinker box." Well I installed another blinker box, and discovered I was in the 1% category -- again.

So whilst scratching my frustrated head (as you do), I found that when I ran a separate earth wire from the RH bulb, suddenly they all worked properly -- aha! The problem, dear readers, was... DRUMROLL... a dodgy earth connection on the indicator circuit. Eureka.

However, I searched high and low, and I couldn't find where the dodgy earth was, so in the end I just ran another earth wire from the indicator earth circuit to an engine cam cover bolt, and that was that. All working like a beauty now.

Happily, the switchgear has also finally settled down and is working properly, so I don't need to empty my wallet on another set just yet. Note to self: NEVER pull apart Katana switchgear unless you want a frustrating experience that may send you to an asylum.

Anyway, the Kat renovation is now complete. Well, except for another fuel tap kit, 'coz after 2-3 months sitting dry the fuel tap just had to start leaking didn't it. Like all true masterpieces, our machines are never finished.

Thanks all for your input and advice; nice to have an online bunch of folks 24/7 to query stuff with.

Cheers,
Mike.