H4 headlight wiring (high and low beam switched ?)

[ukjules]

I have changed my headlight from a sealed beam one
to a new h4 one where the bulb can be replaced.
it works fine with a 50w halogen bulb.

I have however just fitted a h4 led (18w 800lumens )
as a test.

I have attached the issue but basically I have to
change the h4 connections for it to work.
it works fine bar the high and low beam
being switched round?

I am not electrical at all but any ideas why ?
there are only 3 connections to change yet
this I am sure is the only way it can work.

anyone else had an issue with a led h4 bulb?

 

[Steve]

I have not encountered that with a headlight "bulb", but I have on other aftermarket things.

You would think that something as universal and STANDARD as a headlight would follow the standard for what's out there.

Any chance you can find another brand of light? At the very least, make sure to put a note in the headlight housing saying that the change has been made. You can't tell if the LED is going to fail on you or the next owner, but it will be good to have a reminder.

.

 

[Guest]

LED's often have the wrong light pattern for the matching reflector. I was lucky and got a good match between my CandlePower reflector and an ADVMonster Cree LED. Most people on the forum don't like the ADVMonster But I must say mine was an almost perfect match between LED and reflector. Whatever bulb you get should be wired correctly for the socket so I would assume your bulb is a poor match for your reflector.

 

[Brendan W]

Sealed beam and H4 can be wired differently. You can even buy 'adaptors' if you haven't figured out how to rearrange the pins in the plug.
https://www.rallylights.com/hella-adapter-from-165mm-sealed-beams-to-h4-conversion-lamps.html

 

[ukjules]

As I inform I can make it work by making my own
spade connectors (thus not changing the connector
contacts in box around themselves).

I simply cannot understand how with me trying
every (I think ) possibility ot works perfectly
BAR
high and low beam switch being reversed.


have I missed one of the 3*3 possibly options?
this is the bulb !

(this eve I want and will test compare the brightness
compared to my 40 and 60w halogen h4's

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.co.uk/ulk/itm/323745875993

 

[ukjules]

I tried every option .
there are 18 possible locations and the only one that
works is as my photo, making high low switch the wrong
way round but all works .
how ?
are LEDs all like this ?
this may be cheap from china is it for the china market?

how is this happening ? as does not with halogen ?

 

[Steve]

Other responders have hinted at the difference in pattern. One of the main reasons for that is that the LED emitters are not the same size or place as the incandescent filament they are replacing. The difference in placement WILL affect the pattern projected. In some cases, like in the bulbs you showed in the link, there are several sets of emitters, in an attempt to replicate the tungsten filament's all-direction light. The stock H4 bulb actually has TWO filaments. The difference in their position will be reflected differently in the reflector and lens. In the link you showed, I did not see anything even close to that, so I would say that that bulb is pretty much junk. The price pretty much shows that, too. I also noticed that there were several LED emitters facing forward. Very much against the grain for an H4 setup. Virtually ALL light generated by the tungsten filament is shielded from direct view, it is directed to the reflector, then forward through the lens.

Your wiring is probably fine, you just need a better bulb.

.

 

[Grimly]

As I inform I can make it work by making my own
spade connectors (thus not changing the connector
contacts in box around themselves).

I simply cannot understand how with me trying
every (I think ) possibility ot works perfectly
BAR
high and low beam switch being reversed.


have I missed one of the 3*3 possibly options?
this is the bulb !

(this eve I want and will test compare the brightness
compared to my 40 and 60w halogen h4's

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.co.uk/ulk/itm/323745875993

Sorry, but that one you bought is terrible.
I've just taken a punt on a pair of ali-x cheapies that arrived a couple of days ago.
Fitting them revealed a perfect beam pattern, because of the small size and position of the LED segments.
Time will tell how long they last but for 12 bucks a pair I won't cry if they pop in a year or so.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32890571995.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.4a284c4dKo9LPp

Btw, if you're going LED are you running a series regulator?

 

[ukjules]

Ok so you can tell by looking at the led bulb
roughly if they will work.
my 18w 8000lums I agree are not good in reality too.

(taken on board what you say Steve too , andrest)

regulator: as the draw is so much less I haven't
given a thought to reg !
why would or could it be an issue.
i have a reg where i have a additional wire
I attach to somewhere on loom think its
rear light. cant remember why but it is needed.

looking at yours they say 4000 lums. that ain't
as bright as my bad ones? what wattage are they ?

what I can say is new lense and more powerful halogen has transformed
night riding. I will continue to search for an led that works
but I am put off with the hi/ low beam reversal on switch issue.

I might just go for a lesser halogen which with the
new lense will work.

surely someone has cottened on and made LEDs specifically
for motorbikes ? if so where are they ?

 

[Steve]

The issue with the regulator is that the charging system is very carefully balanced. The stator puts out just a little bit more than necessary, to ensure that there is something in reserve to charge the battery. With a permanent magnet and stator charging system like we hav on our bikes, the output is somewhat related to enginen speed. The faster you spin the engine, the more the stator puts out. The regulator will take care of that excess. The stock regulator is a "shunt-type" regulator, which means that any excess is dumped back through the stator. The stator can't tell where its output is going. Whether it is being used by lights and ignition or being shunted back through itself, it only sees that as a "load" and keeps pumping out all it can, all the time. Installing a lower-wattage LED headlight increases the amount of current that needs to be shunted back through the stator, increasing the heat in the winding.

The SH775 regulator that we recommend is a "series-type" regulator. Rather than shunting the current back through the stator, it simply shuts down, interrupting current flow, which regulates the output voltage. Stopping the current throught stator will keep it a bit cooler, letting it last longer.

Lighting up the road is not simply a matter of tossing lumens out there. Consider that a stock halogen is about 1200 lumens. It's one thing to have a bunch of lumens available, but it's MORE important to have them placed correctly, so they don't shine into the eyes of oncoming drivers. Having the source (incandescent filament or LED emitters) in the correct relation to the reflector determines the pattern on the road, which is what you really want.

.

 

[ukjules]

I have found a led that has halogen like shielding
on ebay. this works for a chap on another sort of bike
with a new lense.

pic attachef. 1200lum 12w.

I don't know about my reg without reading up
my notes but I did have an issue with a reg years ago
on this bike blowing up my newtrpnics box.

I got a new reg and it needed me
to attach it to loom as a sensor or something.
I attached it to brake wiring .... along with the standard other wires.


if a different regnis required I'll buy.
I'll find notes and re read post to see if mine is right anyway.

I will also buy the attached led as worth a punt.

 

[Gorminrider]

Good luck with that. Headlights are a bad place to experiment...if it burns out at a bad time..well...

In my country, headlights and all other signals are regulated by the Transport ministry...usually SAE or DOT from the Americans suits...I think. If it's going to be lassez faire on the highways at night, well- it's bad enough out there and I expect many new cars are failing the specifics, when an underfunded department does get around to checking them.
Here's some blah-blah-blah

"S10.17.4 Physical tests. Each motorcycle headlamp that is not designed to conform to
S10.17(a) must be designed to conform to the performance requirements of the vibration test,
moisture test, dust test, and corrosion test of S14.5, the out of focus test of S14.3, the color test
of S14.4, and each motorcycle headlamp that does not incorporate a glass lens must be designed
to conform to the performance requirements of the plastic optical materials test of S14.4."

I wonder what tests your led has passed.

 

[roeme]

(...)

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.co.uk/ulk/itm/323745875993

Toss that absolute sh!t of a bulb into the next dumpster. That is nowhere conforming to H4 standards.

As said by previous posters, one can't just chuck a replacement LED bulb with a fitting base in there; as one can see here:

Hope the hotlink works, otherwise, see here: https://www.ratwell.com/technical/BoschH4.html

There are properly LED H4 replacements by both 'big' (OSRAM, philips, etc) and smaller brands, they look similar to this:

This is btw still not a full replacement, as the low beam light will not be emitted just like an H4, there's a 'blind' spot upfiring. At least it won't blind oncoming drivers...

In any case, the H4 LED's don't come cheap, and for good reason.

Headlights are one of the places on a motorcycle where no corners can be cut, and there's really no need. Classic incandescent bulbs work fine and last quite a bit, if they keep burning out or get shaken to death (and they _do_ shrug off considerable amounts of vibration), then something's wrong with your bike. I'm not sure an LED would fare better und these circumstances; maybe others can chime in here.

I've replaced some non-critical bulbs with cheapo LED's on mine. Many died, as they either couldn't take the vibration or the charging voltage.

 

[Steve]

Many of us on this side of "the pond" have installed a TruckLite headlight. It's not just a repacement bulb, it's the entire works, including emitter, reflector and lens. Not sure if a British version is available, which would have the pattern going in the other direction.

And it's also "not inexpensive". At today's exchange rate, it's about 120 GBP.

It's VERY rugged, as it was designed for use in military vehicles.
And it's DOT legal. :encouragement:

.

 

[ukjules]

all pointsvtaken on board I assure you.
my new lense (advised by good chap on here)
with sane strngth 60/55 halogen
has made my night riding perfect. truly could not be better.

BUT

I am tester and cannot stop and assumed drawing less power via led was good !
I have a led bulb with no shielding and
is totally useless (the one at the start of the post / no shielding ).
a chap on a rd yam site
whom I know to be legit has the one in my pic
and says it is a good replacement
drawing less power on a small 250.

the only difference is the shielding and slightly higher lums.

surely it is worth a test ?

 

[Steve]

Might be worth a test, but be careful when you go out to try it. :-k

Watch the pattern on the road to make sure that you can see and you are not blinding oncoming traffic.

.

 

[Gorminrider]

Sure, UKjules- I like to play too but Just carry a spare incandescent, as the days are getting shorter and the weather is degrading quickly now.

and even incandescents have a rated lifetime. A "brand-name" incandescent has it noted on the box.