Hard shifting into second gear

[cowboyup3371]

Okay, I'm trying to make sense of all the threads I saw on hard gear shifting but need some help. So, here's how mine started.

Before the bike went down over the winter, shifting into each gear was very easy to do - not a single problem. Over the winter, I:

• Changed all 6 clutch springs
• Measured the clutch fiber plates but did not change them. I was very careful to put them back in like I found them
• Changed front sprocket - front hub tightened down to proper torque
• fresh oil (did borrow one quart of old oil from Tkent02 that he had in his garage) placed back into engine. I accidentally overfilled it so I drained out a quart so no telling if the old stuff came back out
• Adjusted clutch lever with Tkent02's guidance

Now, every thing I took off from the sprocket cover and clutch cover sides was put back in correctly AS FAR AS I KNOW. I don't have any extra parts for that section and I don't believe anything is missing.

So what's wrong? I can shift into first gear without a problem. I can also shift into 3rd through 6th without a problem. Downshifting works pretty easy as well. However, I am having a hard time going into neutral if the bike is running (no big deal as I always leave it in gear at lights but don't want to shut bike off at the base gate if I don't have to). I'm also having a hard time shifting into second gear. This bothers me greatly as I almost feel like I have to reach down to pull the lever up. It takes a good bit of time (30 secs maybe) of playing with my foot and the lever to shift. It also almost feels like I have to double clutch it if that was possible. When it does go in, it feels rather hard but I can't explain it as there is no jerkiness. Again, downshifting into 2nd gear is fine.

Reading the archives, it seems I need to check the shifting fork to see if it's bent. I believe that is part number 4 here in the fiche that slides into the plastic piece on the inside of the sprocket cover.

But, I'm not sure what the remainder of my steps here would be. Even if I inspect that rod, do I still have to remove the clutch cover on the opposite side? What should I look for on the opposite side to see what's wrong? Any other recommendations as to what I should check to ensure things are running smoothly? What does part number 21 do?​

I really would like to fix this soon since the bike will become my primary vehicle in order to reduce the money impact from $4 diesel. However, I am also limited to working outside since I don't have a shop or garage so anything I can do while the weather is good would be great (only a couple of hours during the evening after work and on the weekends).​

Thanks.​

 

[tkent02]

It's not the clutch, shifting into second should be easy with or without the clutch. Any chance the bike fell over on the left side over the winter?

 

[cowboyup3371]

No. Just the right when I broke the brake handle end and earlier when the step daughter and I caught it after tightening down the engine mount bolt. No left hand side falls though that I remember since dropping it last August on that side.

Something is making me doubt that though but I can't remember for sure. I don't know now.

 

[cowboyup3371]

Now I remember. Right before I came up to your place the wind had knocked the bike over onto the left side. I remembered because I had come home and started to sit down on the computer and afterwards I asked Steve about a better way to keep it stored outside. There wasn't any damage to the outside so I didn't think anything of it.

 

[tkent02]

This can sometimes bend a shift shaft, of the little gizmo on the end of it that grabs the shift drum. It could also be something external in the shifter linkage... Your 550 has the linkage, right? Not just a lever on the end of the shaft?

 

[cowboyup3371]

What does this linkage look like you are referring to? If you mean the piece with the shift lever on the bottom than yes, that is there. If it's the piece going into the transmission I would have to see a picture to understand what you mean. Then I can go take off the sprocket cover to see it.

Edit: I went ahead and took off the sprocket cover for pictures to help explain this to me...

Everything before taking anything off:

Inside of the sprocket cover itself:

Inside looking at the sprocket:

 

[cowboyup3371]

What kind of damage could I do to the bike if I continue to ride it with this issue? At least until I figure out what's wrong?

 

[tkent02]

Probably none. So if you don't use first at all it works OK? Second gear starts?

 

[cowboyup3371]

I haven't tried starting in second. I just know I can start out in first but have a hard time shifting up in second.

 

[Nessism]

Hi Scott,

Did you make sure those shift linkage ball joints are not binding at all? Another thing is to make sure the clutch cable on the tight side, and lube the helix mechanism built into the clutch cover (there is a grease nipple). The idea is for the clutch to disengage fully.

Good luck and hope you figure it out.

 

[cowboyup3371]

I don't think they are binding but I'll look at it tomorrow during the day. Do I use regular lithium grease into that nipple? How much do I squirt in?

Thanks Ed.

 

[Steve]

Reading the archives, it seems I need to check the shifting fork to see if it's bent. I believe that is part number 4 here in the fiche that slides into the plastic piece on the inside of the sprocket cover.

I am somewhat surprised that nobody has mentioned this yet, but your shifing forkS (yes, that's PLURAL) are parts 1, 2 and 3. :-\\\

Part #4 is merely the shaft on which they ride.

.

 

[cowboyup3371]

Thank you for correcting me on that Steve.

Is there any possibility that if one of these forks are messed up that I could damage it further by riding it? Should I just park it until I can get in there to look? Or am I okay if I pay attention to how I shift or maybe by starting out in second gear already so I don't have to shift using that particular fork (I'm assuming each does their own gear)?

 

[cowboyup3371]

Here's a question for you? Along the lines that Nessism said, could I have my lever on wrong? I moved it a little today and it seemed a tad easier to shift once RPMs dropped to 3500. Is there a right way for it to be set on there?

 

[cowboyup3371]

Pretty close to being fixed

Pretty close to being fixed

Yep, I think it's close to being fixed. Essentially, I reattached the shift lever in the wrong location the first time. After Nessism's post about binding up, I took another look at the pictures I took before I removed it and compared it to what I had on the bike. I took it off and turned the whole assembly about two teeth so the mounting screw lined up with the N(Neutral) on the sprocket cover. It was okay but still caused some hard shifting as the bike died at a stop with the clutch pulled in and it would lurch on me in gear. Plus, I would have to add gas to get it into gear or let it drop to 3500 RPM.

So tonight, I readjusted the clutch lever and sure enough it slips in a little better. I still have to either pre-load the shift lever or add gas before letting out the clutch instead of simultaneously. But, it feels a lot better than before.

Thanks all for the help and I'm glad it wasn't anything serious enough that would cause me to jump into the tranny. Not ready for that downtime/expense right now.

 

[Guest]

It was okay but still caused some hard shifting as the bike died at a stop with the clutch pulled in and it would lurch on me in gear. Plus, I would have to add gas to get it into gear or let it drop to 3500

Well that's going to lead you in another direction.

Clutch.

or clutch basket has grooves the plates are sticking in.

Possible warped or bent plate.

Possible missing washer/ spacer between the clutch pack and basket.

I took it off and turned the whole assembly about two teeth so the mounting screw lined up with the N(Neutral) on the sprocket cover

Could it be that it feels better because the shift leaver is in a position where you have more mechanical advantage with your foot at this new angle ?

I'm thinking maybe it took more effort to move the leaver where it was but now its easier to move since you have more leverage or it feels more natural.


How does it behave without the engine running ?
Can you shift through all the gears without any feeling of binding ?
How does the shift lever move with and with out the cover on. Notice any binding with it on but not with it off ?


Here's something I would try.

With it idling and on the center stand, shift to first and release the clutch and then shift to second and on up and down with the clutch or without.

If its the clutch that is the problem, you will not notice anything while shifting up and down.
It would feel normal.

If its the shift mechanism, (forks, drum etc...) you will feel binding when trying to shift when there is no load on the back tire.

Hope this helps.

 

[cowboyup3371]

Well that's going to lead you in another direction.

Clutch.

or clutch basket has grooves the plates are sticking in.

Possible warped or bent plate.

Possible missing washer/ spacer between the clutch pack and basket.

Very possible but I doubt it only because I just got done inspecting everything before taking it to Denver two weeks ago. Plates all measured within tolerances and the basket didn't have any grooves on the inside. Now there was some scratching on the outside of the basket though. However, the plates are getting close enough to say I'll replace them next winter for the heck of it.

Could it be that it feels better because the shift leaver is in a position where you have more mechanical advantage with your foot at this new angle ?

I'm thinking maybe it took more effort to move the leaver where it was but now its easier to move since you have more leverage or it feels more natural.

Foot position and angle haven't changed that I noticed either during yesterday's ride into work and back (44 miles round trip) or the short jaunt up and down my dirt road today.

How does it behave without the engine running ?
Can you shift through all the gears without any feeling of binding ?
How does the shift lever move with and with out the cover on. Notice any binding with it on but not with it off ?


Here's something I would try.

With it idling and on the center stand, shift to first and release the clutch and then shift to second and on up and down with the clutch or without.

If its the clutch that is the problem, you will not notice anything while shifting up and down.
It would feel normal.

If its the shift mechanism, (forks, drum etc...) you will feel binding when trying to shift when there is no load on the back tire.

Hope this helps.

Haven't checked this part really but something to look into; I'll try to check it out in the next couple of weeks before Brown County. Want to get some riding down first and the remainder of the gears feel great while the bike's running. I only had the problem going up between first and second. It's kind of the reason I think Ed's advice really took hold of me after seeing the before picture vs what I put back on difference.

Thank you for the advice Mekanix.

 

[cowboyup3371]

So it is finally fixed for sure it looks like

So it is finally fixed for sure it looks like

I finally have it done right. Yep the bike shifts correctly now and I'm not dying at stops from the clutch not disengaging while pulled in. Here's what started from yesterday when I posted that I thought I finally had it close to being fixed.

So yesterday, I grabbed the Clymer's manual and read through it while I adjusted everything. I loosened up the handlebar locknut as well as the little screw and nut at the sprocket cover. Then, I also loosened (unthreaded) the cable as it went into the sprocket cover a couple of turns. Then, I measured the free play at the lever to what I thought was the 2-4mm per the book (1/16 to 1/8"). When I first test drove it it felt good.

As I took off this morning and got to the gas station, I couldn't pull the clutch in again without the bike stalling. Okay, no big deal as I'm at a stop. But when I went to take off again, the bike stalled if I tried to shift from neutral to first gear. The only way I could get the bike to stay running was to start it in first while the bike lurched forward even with the clutch handle fully depressed. Definitely not very safe and I wasn't happy with it.

So I get to the base and before going inside I try to adjust the cable again. Only this time all I did was to loosen the locknut at the lever (I noticed what I think was a lot of play in the lever) and then loosened the nut where the cable goes into the sprocket cover. After doing that a couple of more turns from where I had it yesterday, I tightened up the locknut at the lever and tested it. First thing, I was able to shift into first gear without the bike lurching forward as the lever was pulled in. I then found neutral very easy from first while the bike was running. And finally found second from first without any problems and very smoothly.

Finally, on the way home tonight while fighting 25+ mph winds from the south (I'm driving east), I noticed that my shifts into second were back to being completely smooth and stopping at stop signs occurred in first gear without killing the engine again.

I'm definitely a happy camper. I appreciate everything you all have done. Hopefully I don't have any more issues.

 

[Steve]

I guess that means we'll see you at Brown County after all?

.

 

[cowboyup3371]

I hope so Steve since now I'm thinking of changing out the front springs and steering head bearings and not sure I can get it done by BC. I hate hitting the ground so hard after every bump