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hard shifting

  • Thread starter Thread starter Anonymous
  • Start date Start date
A

Anonymous

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hi all,
i installed a barnett clutch in my 1980 gs850 over the winter (plates and springs) and am now having difficulty shifting when the bike is cold. i can run through the gears when the engine is off and once she warms up she'll shift like silk. my clymers manual doesn't go into specifics on how to troubleshoot the clutch, so any input would be greatly appretiated. thanks, bill
 
clutch

clutch

say :) what weight oil are you using and what model bike do you have :)
 
clutch

clutch

i'm running 20w50 and my bike model is gs850L. it the same weight of oil i used last year but that was with my old clutch, which was quite worn. thanks, bill
 
GRABBING CLUTCH

GRABBING CLUTCH

I HAVE THE SAME PROBLEM FROM TIME TO TIME AND MY SOLUTION HAS BEEN T ADJUST THE CLUTCH A LITTLE ON THE TIGHT SIDE AND THEN WHEN I AM WARMING THE BIKE UP I PULL THE CLUTCH LEVER A FEW TIMES TO GET THE DISKS UN STUCK. IT CROPS UP AGAIN FROM TIME TO TIME AND IT USUALLY TELLS ME TO TAKE A CLOSER LOOK AT THE CLUTCH ADJUSTMENT--I ALSO HAVE HEAVY DUTY CLUTCH SPRINGS BUT I DIDNT USE A BARNETT CLUTCH LOTS OF FOLKS SAY THEY GRAB I HAVE NO EXPERIENCE WITH BARNETT CLUTCHES
 
clutch

clutch

thanks for the advice scotty. i'll do a bit of tinkering. is it possible that the heavy oil in combination with a new clutch could be causing the problem?
 
Weird, I have sort of the opposite problem. When my Barnett springed GS750 clutch gets hot, finding neuts can be real bitch. Other than that, it shifts fine with real possitive engagement, especially at high rpms, the main reason I changed them. 8)
 
Same problem here

Same problem here

I have the same problem on my 1100EX with the Barnett clutch - tough to change gears when cold and tough to find neutral sometimes, especially when the wheels aren't rotating. I went with the heay duty clutch springs and that's what I attribute it to. You definitely don't have any clutch slpiing though.

Just an FYI, keep your eyes on the clutch cable when running those heavy springs. I snapped mine 100 miles from home one time due in part, to the increased work the cable had to handle. If you see any fraying, replace it.

--- Frank ---
 
clutch

clutch

i guess i'm doomed to 10 minute warm ups... ah well, its worth it to be able to hit 8 grand with no slippage!
 
Re: clutch

Re: clutch

BillRueb said:
i guess i'm doomed to 10 minute warm ups... ah well, its worth it to be able to hit 8 grand with no slippage!

Try replacing half of your Barnet springs(every other one) with your stock ones. This was recommended to us several years ago on one of our race bikes and it worked fine. Lightened the pull and eased the shifting with no slippage.
 
hard shifting

wow! great suggestion dan :D i'll let you know how it works out. thanks, bill
 
hard shifting

Bill you either put a jinx on me or or opened my eyes. BECAUSE I just went for a ride and noticed the clutch grabbing and when it warmed up it was fine- Gee I just today changed the oil and it was as smooth as silk yesterday. BUT I distinctly remember that the oil level was at the low end of the marks just before i changed it and today i filled it up to the high mark-- I also recall the shifting being easy when i needed to add oil about 2 weeks ago---Possibly the transmission likes the lower oill level at starts--i dont know what to make of it and sure would like lots of opinions or experiences in this are for the knowledge
 
hard shifting

spooky 8O maybe the new forum was born under a bad sign :lol:. i'm curious scotty, what weight of oil are you running in hot 'n' hummid florida? spring has been slow and chilly in alberta this year (rarely above 12`C) and i'm starting to think that the 20w50 is too sticky on the clutch plates when the bike is cold. i'm going to switch to 10w40 when i impliment dan's spring suggestion later today. thanks, bill
 
STICKY

STICKY

THE FIRST THING I HAVE TO SAY IS THAT I RUN 20-50 BUT REMEMBER THAT IT GETS THICKER WHEN IT WARMS UP-So if you go to a lighter oil it will still get thicker as it warms up---it seems to have something to do with the plates being dry at start up and then just a bit of oil getting on them as you ride and that throws out the theory of being better with lower oil levels--im baffeled. Ill tell you the only thing that i havent tried us using the recomended 10 w 40--it will probably work but i dont want to admit that Nick Diaz is correct :D
 
I had a Barnett Clutch and heavy duty springs in my 1100 many years ago, and I too had difficult shifting. My local Suzuki dealer said to just put in stock plates and springs and it should shift much smoother. I did and it did.
 
Hey Scotty,

Your oil doesn't get thicker when it gets hot, it just behaves like a thicker oil at that operating temperature.

The 20W50 grading means it behaves like a 20 grade oil when cold and behaves like a 50 grade oil when that 50 grade oil is hot. The trick here is that a 50 grade oil when hot has about the same viscosity as the 20 grade oil has when cold.

What this means is that your oil tends to stay at about the same viscosity through the normal operating range. In reality it gets a little thinner when hot, but not really enough to make too much difference to the motor. Viscosity variation in oil operates in partnership with shear strength changes under running loads, and other minor variables. (Now I wish I paid more attention in fluid dynamics back in my engineering student days.)

Your clutch probably operates more easily when the oil level is down because with a lower oil level it heats up faster.

Kim
 
VISCOSITY

VISCOSITY

THANKS FOR THE REPLY KIM
pPEASE HELP ME TO UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU MEAN BEHAVES LIKE 50 WEIGHT OIL BIT DOESNT GET THICKER :?: :?:
THANKS AGAIN
SCOTTY
 
Hi Scotty,

I'll have a go but it takes a while to write these things out....

Imagine that you have five buckets of oil, all different weights, a 10, 20, 30, 40, 50. The 10 will be quite light, and each will get heavier until the 50 is very heavy.

Now put these buckets of oil over a heater so they heat up to "half hot". They will each be slightly lighter than before. The operating weight of them as they thin out is now 5, 10, 15, 20, 25.

Now keep heating them up to as hot as an engine at full running temperature. They get even more thinner so they are now 3, 6, 10, 14, 20. It might help to write these numbers under each other as they get hotter so you can see the progression.

What we have is a lower viscosity rating for each oil as the temperature rises.

But this is not good for engine oil as we want it to stay the same through the operating range. If we need 20 grade oil so we can actually pump it around the motor without taking too much of the motor's power away, that is what we need. And we need it when the motor is cold or hot.

Trouble is, we put in cold 20 grade oil and it won't keep the thing properly lubricated when it is hot and is thinned down to 6 grade. But if we put in 50 grade oil which works OK when it is hot it is too stiff for us to pump around the motor when cold.

So the oil gurus came up with methods to keep the oil at certain vicosity levels. They do this by combing different length molecules with different characteristics of how they join up with each other. Those stable oils are what we use these days.

But when they did this they wanted a method of describing how viscous the oil was when it was cold and when it was hot. So what we have now is a cold/hot method of describing oil. Forget the W, but 20W50 means at cold it is 20 grade oil - and when it is hot it is still 20 grade viscosity, just as a 50 grade oil would be when that is hot.

They could have just cal
led it 20 grade, but some things like oils that thin radically when hot, and sometimes we need to hold a fairly level viscosity through a wide temp range.

As the Castrol ads say (at least here in Oz), "Oils aint oils".

This might still be a bit confusing. Sorry about that. In people terms we might say something like, "You're pretty normal most of the time but behave just like your father when you get under pressure." This might mean we lose our temper or we cope wonderfully.

When the heat's on, we start to behave differently. So does oil.

I'd better stop before this gets too confusing. :)

Anyway, what time are you over there? Here in Oz it's 8:50 Thurs night. We got Star Wars II showing 20 hours ago.

Kim
 
oil

oil

Sorry I put yu through that--I just reread the article on "all you want to know about motor oil" that is in the IN THE GARAGE SECTION of our website --plus i was in voice with duncan bone in australia and i have it straight now-- so now i want to see how the synthetic oil ((15 w 50 )) reacts with the shifting thing--I WILL READ YOUR ENTIRE POST TO HELP ME TO GET THE INFORMATION INTO MY HEAD
THANKS :D
 
You were trying to ready up on oil theory and talk with Dink at the same time? You've got nerves of steel. :wink:

Reminds me... It's about time I got myself down to Dink's place before he moves too far north to be within reach.

Kim
 
Everyone who has a dragging clutch should check the metal plates for warpage. I bought a bike once that had a dragging clutch and yes, everyone blamed it on the Barnett disks, but it was fine after I got straight metal disks in it. Since they tend to warp into the shape of a bowl, it takes a little effort to check them all thoroughly. If you have a perfectly smooth surface, you are supposed to lay them down on each side and check for a gap with feeler gauges. I prefer to take the whole set of metal disks (as they were arranged in the bike, minus the friction plates) and hold them together like a sandwich. Usually there are 1 or 2 very noticeable gaps in an otherwise tight group: on one side or the other of that gap will be a warped disk. Often, just by rearranging the order of the disks, I can get the gap to disappear (like stacking bowls for the cupboard), and this generally lessens the dragging effect to where it's not even noticeable. Officially, though, you should replace warped disks.
 
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