head gasket Q.

[whiterabbitt]

this has probably been covered, but here goes.

if I pull my head do I need to replace the base gasket? it doesnt leak atm, but the head gasket does, mainly around 1-4 outside and between 2-3 in front.

after sitting for a couple days I noticed that there was a wetness to the grime on the outside cylinders(1-4) around the head gasket, and 1-2 were flooded, not sure if it was that way before I tried to start it. after a short ride the wetness seemed to spread a little.

in the year that I have been riding this bike I have never seen any similar leakage, I mean there is the typical grime line, but never wet like this.

ps. I will post pics later

 

[Steve]

In the process of removing the head, there is a very good chance that you will (accidentaly) disturb the cylinders and break the seal.

Step back and look at the big picture. Would you rather spend a few more dollars (and less than an hour) now and replace the base gasket (it also gives you the opportunity to examine the rings and the cylinder bores) or would you like to take a chance and do the whole thing over again next week, when you find out that it leaks after all? :-k

.

 

[Skateguy50]

The base gasket goes for like $20, and you MIGHT get away with not replacing it. However if you put it back together and find you need to replace the base you will HAVE to buy another $120 head gasket as those are one time use.

I had the same penny saving thoughts as well and decided to just replace them both, oh and I went with non OEM and found myself repeating it all again... so get the Suzuki Gaskets, take your time and do it right once.

 

[whiterabbitt]

point taken. thats kinda what I thought I just wanted to make sure because I remember seeing a post where someone said you didnt need to replace the base gasket, that may have been situational.

any idea as to the sudden leakage?

thanks

 

[Skateguy50]

I really only know my little 650, but on mine the outer bolts server as an oil passage up to the cam cover area. On the head gasket it has oil seals for those 4 bolts (2 on each side), so if those little washers cracked it would cause an oil leak in that area.

I got a project thread from this summer with a few pictures of replacing my gaskets. I ended up doing the valve seals, and piston rings as well.

 

[gs road racer]

Ditto Steve's comment you're there do it or it more then likely give you grief in the future....A hint be careful cleaning the old head gasket(or any gasket for that matter) off the mating surfaces. I use a sharp scraper at a low angle and do final cleanup with a flat stone wrapped with 400 wet paper in a circular motion. This will give a good surface for the gasket to seal on.

As for why the sudden leak hey it failed and once it does it get's worse progressively faster!Entirely in proportion to your wish for it not to leak...gotta be part of Murphy's law.....

 

[whiterabbitt]

ok so who can tell me the best place to get what I need.
1. gaskets for entire top end
2. rings of good quality
3. anything else I might need for this
4. an approximate cost to re-ring/ rebuild

I finally got around to doing a compression test today and this is what I came up with
#1- 120psi dry, 167 wet
#2- 112 dry, 147 wet (this cyl. jumped to 180 before backing down to 147 during the wet test)
#3- 115 dry, 160 wet
#4- 132 dry, 168 wet

the engine has 25k on it and has NEVER been cracked until I did the clutches. this seems pretty low mileage for that kind of deterioration IMO, I wonder if something happened. I cant comment on the condition of internals because I am still riding! I am just getting annoyed with the hard starting and low power. and oil seepage.

A friend pointed out that if someone started it after storage without adding a spot of oil to each cyl. it could have led to this. Any opinions? I dont want to have to do this again if I can help it.

 

[Skateguy50]

Before you write off the low compression to rings, when is the last time you adjusted the valves? You mention hard starting so it sounds like you might have two things to look at. First is a valve adjustment to fix the hard start and then check compression.

You shouldnt have to get rings, but if you do its best to consider rehoning the cylinders to get a good ring seal. I did that on mine mostly because I rushed the reinstall and broke a ring...

I would say your local suzuki dealer is the best spot to go, I got my oem head gasket and base from bike bandit and it took over a month to get one that wasnted damaged from poor shipping. They bent it and shoved it in a helmet box.

Start at the top and work your way down. Now if your really want to just do the engine top and and be done with it, get the valve oil seals too and expect in gaskets, rings, seals, and cylinder hone to be in it about $400.

 

[Nessism]

Was this compression check done with the engine hot and the throttle wide open? When is the last time the valves were adjusted? Has the bike been run regularly as of late?

Basically, the rings may not seal well if the bike has sat for a while, and the engine needs to be hot with the throttle open to perform a proper compression test. Your results indicate rings but those readings are not bad for an engine that has sat or was tested cold.

 

[whiterabbitt]

I did the compression test after a good warm up and couple mile ride,and yes the throttle was wide open. I ride as often as I can sooooo.......this bike hasnt sat for 7 consecutive days since I put it back on the road.

 

[Nessism]

I did the compression test after a good warm up and couple mile ride,and yes the throttle was wide open. I ride as often as I can sooooo.......this bike hasnt sat for 7 consecutive days since I put it back on the road.

Sounds like the rings are getting tired then, although your compression numbers aren't bad enough to justify a tear down. I'd adjust the valves and ride the crap out of the bike until it won't go any more.

 

[whiterabbitt]

if there is one thing I hate about the design of the gs engines it is the valve shims. I dont have any extras, and they are costly. $11 each at local shop! and you must know what sizes you need, if it werent for that it would already be done.

I miss being able to adjust the valves roadside if necessary, with basic hand tools and nothing else

 

[Nessism]

Shim valve adjustment is technically superior. The only downside is having to do a little work to take inventory on the shims you need. Z1 Enterprises sells shims for $5 each.

 

[whiterabbitt]

sweet thats half what I thought.

any thoughts on putting Engine Restore in my bike? will it have any adverse effects on seals, clutches, bearings, etc.? I am not an optimist when it comes to liquid fixes and would rather not, but if it wont hurt and will boost compression until I do it right......

 

[Nessism]

sweet thats half what I thought.

any thoughts on putting Engine Restore in my bike? will it have any adverse effects on seals, clutches, bearings, etc.? I am not an optimist when it comes to liquid fixes and would rather not, but if it wont hurt and will boost compression until I do it right......

I thought you were a mechanic? No self respecting mechanic I've met would even consider snake oil engine treatments.

Do the valve adjustment, make sure the carbs are properly cleaned and have fresh O-rings inside, intake boots sealed properly, no air leaks anywhere, and then just ride. Maybe some MMO in the gas tank for a few tanks worth to see if the rings free up a little. Use lots of throttle and check the compression again in 1000 miles. GS bikes are known to run perfectly well with the compression down to 100 psi so you have lots of time.

 

[Steve]

if there is one thing I hate about the design of the gs engines it is the valve shims. I dont have any extras, and ... you must know what sizes you need,

I can help you with that part.

Read the last part of my sig.

.

 

[whiterabbitt]

notice I said id rather not use it, I dont believe in them. I was just bouncing a suggestion that oddly enough was made by an atv guy who uses it on older quads.

edit.
that spreadsheet sounds fab, do you need to email it or something?

 

[Steve]

.. that spreadsheet sounds fab, do you need to email it or something?

When I look at the signature at the bottom of any of my posts, it says "... send me an e-mail request ..."
Does it look different on your screen? :-k

Yes, it has to be by e-mail, as I can not attach the spreadsheet to a PM.

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