Help! '82 GS450T No Start - Has Spark! Weird Mismatched Carb?!?

[Guest]

One thing to double check with the signal generator rotor is to make sure it's on the right way around and not 180 degress out.

Rotate it so the right side of the advance mechanism is pointing up.

The side of the rotor that has the two magnetic bars on it should be pointing to the right.

If it's pointing to the left, it's 180 degrees out and needs to be unbolted and swapped around.

You can see the two magnetic bars I'm talking about in the photo you attached in post #17 above in the photo marked "Left". I can't make out the writing on the advance plate in that photo though.

 

[Guest]

Well, if your sure about that then that would be the case.

The writing in the picture for the Right side has more marks on it than the left side does.


In the LEFT picture you can see the magnet is pointed to the left and not the right.

Oh and that mean's mine is wrong too, lol I didn't even notice it till now

Page 123 of the manual confirm's your right Pete.

Pull the timing advancer apart and you will see how it can be swapped around both ways. All you have to do is hold the weights out of the way and the center pop's out.

 

[Guest]

Well, if your sure about that then that would be the case.

The writing in the picture for the Right side has more marks on it than the left side does.


In the LEFT picture you can see the magnet is pointed to the left and not the right.

Oh and that mean's mine is wrong too, lol I didn't even notice it till now

Page 123 of the manual confirm's your right Pete.

Pull the timing advancer apart and you will see how it can be swapped around both ways. All you have to do is hold the weights out of the way and the center pop's out.

Yeah I had double confirmation of this... the Dynatek instructions are where I first encountered the correct orientation...

 

[Showdown]

Well I pulled the valve cover (ruined the gasket) and aligned everything to TDC.

The No. 1 Arrow on the Exhaust cam is supposed to:

"point directly toward or slightly below (1-2mm) gasket surface on cylinder head" -per Clymer

Mine looks a few mm above and points parallel...

Here is the pin count:

What do you all think???

 

[hjacobmiller]

could he easily confirm it is the rotor reversed just by switching the spark plug caps to the opposite cylinder? it would try to start if the rotor was on reversed but the ht leads were switched...?

 

[Showdown]

What's backwards?

Can anyone point it out? Thanks

Also, see EX cam timing post below!

 

[Showdown]

According to this thread http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=159474&highlight=lost+nut (post 31-35), the cam timing may be ok. I'd be nice to have one of you pros chime in. Thanks again everyone for the help.

 

[MisterCinders]

Well I pulled the valve cover (ruined the gasket) and aligned everything to TDC.

The No. 1 Arrow on the Exhaust cam is supposed to:

"point directly toward or slightly below (1-2mm) gasket surface on cylinder head" -per Clymer

Mine looks a few mm above and points parallel...

Here is the pin count:

What do you all think???

Your cams look way off. IIRC - you are supposed to have 20 pins from #2 to #3. So 18 just won't do. [EDIT - Looked up the manual and your bike takes 18 pins. So 18 WILL do nicely.]

Lining up #1 on the exhaust cam can be a bit tricky, and it's hard to tell whether yours is too high. The pin count is bad for sure though. [EDIT Or not, since that is what the manual says.}

Redo the timing with the chain taut. Vice-grips help keep the camshaft in place while you gradually tighten the bearing caps. Count the 2 to 3 pins over and over, especially as you are tightening things down.

Before you spin the engine to confirm the timing INSTALL AND ACTIVATE THE TENSIONER or you'll have to do it all over again. AMHIK .

 

[Guest]

Um,, wow, I see two things wrong here.


1. the manual has two settings for cam timing. One for 20 pins and the other is 18 pins. As long as the notches are almost parallel then its good. The thing is, the other model's had different cam's that you had to align to 18-20 pins but with those cam's the notches were still almost parallel. If you try and set those ones to 20 pins then you would see that the cam's just are not lined up right.



You need to set the cam's so that the notches at the end are pointed in and almost parallel with the head. Well as close as possible. If its not perfect that's ok because if it was 1 tooth off you would see a big difference in where the notch lines up. Once they are you should have 20 pins in between the arrow's

We need another picture zoomed out further to show the pin count and the notches at the end of the cam's because we don't know what cam's you have. you might have the cam's that require the 18 pin's.

2. The rotating part of the advancer ( with the two lobes on it. ) are definitely installed backwards.

Easy way to tell which is which is to stick a socket close to one of the lobes of the advancer and see which one sticks. That's the one that should be forward.

The way to fix that is to take the 10mm bolt out while holding the bigger nut behind it.

Take the advancer out and hold the base while turning the lobes so that its fully clockwise. That's its fully advanced position. You then pull the rotor out and wiggle it a bit so that it comes off. You will see how the little arm weights hold it in place. Turn it 180' and set it back in to place.

You will have to hold the weights out of the way to get it lined up so that it drops right in again. It sometimes helps to take the springs off but you could manage without it.




In order to set the cam's properly you will have to remove the intake cam and set it a few teeth back until it lines up properly.

TO do this you will notice that if you rotate the engine just a little bit that there is a point where none of the cam lobes are pushing on the valves.

That's the best place to take the cam out without any load on the cam's. So it won't spring out of place while your working with it. I think it was just slightly back a bit but you can feel it when you rotate the crank that there is less load at that sweet spot.

You can remove the tensioner and allow the chain to go slack. you could make a mark on the #20 pin that you want and take the cam out to line it up and then reassemble.

IF you try and take the cam out with some load there is potential for stripping the cap bolts if you take one all the way out so work back and forth in that case.

When your done reassembling, turn the engine over by hand to see if it binds at any time. That is a sign that the cam's are not aligned again.

 

[Showdown]

I really don't see how 20 pins are going to work. '82 GS450T???

Here's the pic you requested:

 

[Showdown]

 

[Guest]

I really don't see how 20 pins are going to work.

Your right. I stand corrected. That model is the one that takes 18 pin's

Page 199 of the Haynes manual and not page 56.

I just confirmed now that the 20 pin mark is definitely for the 8 valve motor's.

 

[Guest]

Yes. page 123 of the Haynes manual show's that hole with the magnet in it to be facing the other way.

 

[Showdown]

Ha ha, I just switched it... If my cam timing looks ok then - is it ok to try the gas-in-the-spark-plug test with the valve cover off, or will oil spew everywhere?
(I've ran cars with the cover off for a sec but never a motorcycle!)

*gotta order a valve cover gasket asap lol

My $300 motorcycle purchase (non-runner) is growing on me! Thanks to you all I've finally fixed something 'wrong' that would have kept this thing from starting!

I hope that's it...

 

[hjacobmiller]

Mechanix to the rescue again!:clap:

 

[mpencegs]

I have done comperession tests without the cover.. You should be ok. You could loosely fit the cover with a few bolts to keep any spalshing down..

 

[Guest]

Oil does get picked up by the chain and flung everywhere, but just to hear it kick over it should be fine or if there is bits of the gasket still on the cover it should be fine just to bolt it down lightly to catch the oil splash.

While your in there, its a good time to check the valve clearances

 

[Guest]

Now I get to chime in... and everything's under control

I can confirm 18 pins for the '82 450's, exactly what I timed my cams to.

And yep, rotor was definitely 180 degrees out.

+1 on checking valve clearances with the valve cover off too, and on these 4 valve motors it's a really simple process too. Just don't rotate the motor if you have any shims removed!

Definitely glad to see there's something obvious that's definitely wrong, so even if we're not 100% there we've definitely made a good start!

I have a feeling you're gonna love that 450 even more once you get her going... these little twins are such a blast to ride

I got out for a little ride locally in some twisties today and oh yeah baby, love it!

 

[mpencegs]

+1 on the 18 pins and the 26MM float bowels. Working great for me here on my 81 450..

 

[Steve]

While your in there, its a good time to check the valve clearances

But ONLY if the engine has not been run for at least 8 hours.

Not sure how much the "test fire" with a few drops of fuel in the inlet would affect it, but the engine needs to be "stone cold" before checking valve clearances.

.