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help needed--camshaft problem again- COMPRESSION RESULTS

  • Thread starter Thread starter Poot
  • Start date Start date
P

Poot

Guest
++++EDIT+++++
If you want to just get to where I'm at now, go to the last post!
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alright....this started out as http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/viewtopic.php?t=33700


now, what i just did, i think, was to fekk things up worse.....wish now that I hadn't touched the cams. :cry:

I took the the little sprocket and housing off (in between the intake and exaust sprockets) so I could change the timing of my camshafts, since the intake was slightly (1 notch) off. I couldnt get enough slack to lift the cam-chain off of the sprockets

I ended up making it worse, by changing it one (welll, maybe 2 or 3) notches in the wrong direction, making things worse.

now I've put the housing and little sprocket back on, and now, when I try and turn the crankshaft forward, I cant. I dont want to break something by putting all of my force into it. I tried turning it backwards a few times, but it didn't help any .


What kind of damage have I done, and how can I change my cam timing back to normal? even with the tensioner off, I cant get enough slack to change the timing in the correct direction, but only in the direction which makes the timing even worse.


..........what have i done?!?! :evil: :evil: :evil:
 
stop now and take it back apart!, including removing the tensioner, after you get it apart you may have to roll the crank some to pull the slack up in the back, if you could turn the cams one way, the reverse should be true or roll them all the way around till correct, you need to set up the exhaust cam first, (as it's the no slack side) then the intake, in order to work the slack back to the tensioner. Only turn the engine in operating direction, should be pulling chain towards the front
 
I couldnt get enough slack to lift the cam-chain off of the sprockets
Click to expand...

If you pull the tensioner off you should get lots of slack to remove the chain from one sprocket at a time. Once you have the tensioner off, push down on the chain in between the cams. This should pull enough slack from the tensioner side to lift the chain. I had no problem pulling one cam at a time to install slotted sprockets using this method on my 1100.

now I've put the housing and little sprocket back on, and now, when I try and turn the crankshaft forward, I cant.
Click to expand...

First off - DON'T PANIC! :) This is not the end of the World. It just feels like it... :D You probably moved things enough to have a valve kiss a piston. This should not hurt anything if you are turning gently by hand. Don't force it. Dave is right, first thing to do is pull the tensioner and move the chain back to where you had it originally. Then check the timing using the timing marks on the ignition rotor and cam sprockets to confirm where you are and how far you must move it.

If you are truly screwed and have lost your references, you must start from scratch as if you are reassembling the engine after a rebuild. Your manual should show you how to set the timing correctly with the timing marks. Do you have a manual? If not, I can describe it, but it is a bit wordy...


Mark
 
the timing on the exhaust sprocket was pretty good, and still is....its just the intake side. the way i managed to change it, was to lift it up slightly, when the chain was the most slack, and move it one by one (did it 3 times)

i tried going backwards a few turns, and then going forwards again, but came up against that block again.

i'll get that tensioner housing off ( I assume you guys mean the one on the inside of the engine, rather than the auto.cct. on the outside) and give it another go......i really hope this works, as im hoping to get it started by 9 tonight or so....hopefully....
 
Poot said:
)

i'll get that tensioner housing off ( I assume you guys mean the one on the inside of the engine, rather than the auto.cct. on the outside) and give it another go...... ..
Click to expand...


no wonder you're having problems! the auto one, on the outside, is the tensioner, the sprocket between the cams needs to come out too
 
If your not using adjustable cam sprockets you can't do much about your timing. You'll have to go by the book. Sounds like you got the intake cam to far advance. If you didn't use your starter yet, you should be O-kay.

I'd set the engine at TDC and then time the cams to oem standards (on my 82 1100 the notches on the right side of the cams point toward each other) Check the manual on your model to make sure it's right.

Once you get past this you can do anything 8)
 
thanks for the help guys.....

what i've done now, is take the camshafts out, and fix that problem of the crankshaft not advancing any further. 8)

good thing you reminded me of setting it at TDC first....I was just about to set them without that.... :roll:


i've just got to head off to the store, to buy some loctite for when i put the camshaft holders and idler-assembly back in. man.....i thought I was so screwed.....


looks like i might have this bike running by the end of the night yet (even if it does wake up the neighbours)



THANKS A LOT GUYS!!!!!! :D
 
Yeah, you can only fudge the cams one way in the GS400E too. You have to pull the offending camshaft to retime it properly. Make sure your crank timing is in the correct spot too. If your bike is anything like an E model the slots in the cams should be perfectly parallel when facing eachother.

Steve
 
Go ahead and remove both cams out of the engine, look at all the valve springs, retainers and keepers. Do they all look the same? anything broke, bent or missing.

If that valve is still stuck open when the camshafts are removed then it sound like a bent valve if all the springs and keepers's are okay.

A drop valve is when a spring breaks and allows the keepers to fall out dropping the valve into the cylinder or the valve breaks in two or if the rocker pusher down on the retainers causing the keepers to come out dropping a valve.

I think you need to just take a break for awhile, get some rest and start over with a clear mind. It's real easy to miss a step or get out of sequence if your're in a rush.

I'm hopping that is just still out of time.

PS. does your bike have buckets over shims or is it adjustable rockers.

Good Luck
Jake
 
Alright, i;ve finally fixed the problem.......


now, I've got it back together, and am going for a 2nd try at starting it up this morning.

I guess its a good sign if you hear the sound of some air coming out of the exhaust while trying to start it (a gentle putt, to put it that way) :wink:


hope i get it started up!!!
 
Poot said:
Alright, i;ve finally fixed the problem.......


now, I've got it back together, and am going for a 2nd try at starting it up this morning.

I guess its a good sign if you hear the sound of some air coming out of the exhaust while trying to start it (a gentle putt, to put it that way) :wink:


hope i get it started up!!!
Click to expand...
Note that when you tighten down the camshaft journals the alignment marks will move one you. Make sure you rotate the engine several times to check the alignment with everything tightened.
 
yeah, the sprockets are still set properly, but I noticed that the TDC mark they were originally set with shifted slightly (maybe 2cm) to the right. i noticed this as i had tightened all the caps , but decided to give it a go since it was only slightly off, and I will probably be back to put on a new valve cover gasket and change 1 of the cam cover bolts that nearly stripped (i managed to snug it pretty good, before it started to really strip)


would this really affect the way my bike works drastically? at this point I just want to get it started.........going to pick up some fresh plugs right now....tried starting it last night, but not with much success....but that was at 1 am
 
Make sure you set TDC with (1 and 4) not (2 and 3)!

Don't rush just to get it started..........it could be the biggest mistake you could make!

Dr. Dre

I am in Toronto, give me a call if you get stuck 416 671 4495
 
If it shifted when tightening it down, take it apart and do it again. Take note of the direction it shifts when tighened and compensate when you place the cam the next time. You don't have to torque it all up, just tighten, then check again.

Do it right and you won't have any problems. Do it wrong and it will either run bad or it will break. Either way, you will be doing it again. Don't rush!
 
just got work, and am about to get it all taken care of.


the question I have now, is:


Did I screw up (possibly bend a valve stem) by trying to bump start it? it never started up, even when trying to bump start, because the timing was slightly off, so I wonder if I bent a valve stem or not.

heres hoping to not :-#
 
My GS400 was able to run with the tensioner off (it was on the bike but I didn't release it...) and all that happened was the exhaust cam jumped a tooth. No damage whatsoever. I have heard people being 2 teeth off before and not finding it until the next time they work on the valve clearances.

Please stop chaning the thread title and origional post. Having the full timeline of what you are doing is helpful.

Steve
 
Poot said:
just got work, and am about to get it all taken care of.


the question I have now, is:


Did I screw up (possibly bend a valve stem) by trying to bump start it? it never started up, even when trying to bump start, because the timing was slightly off, so I wonder if I bent a valve stem or not.

heres hoping to not :-#
Click to expand...
Run a compression test.
 
well, im midway through things now.....got the caps off, and everything timed right at TDC-1.4. im going to put on the caps, and see if the timing is the same, although it should be this time, because all of the lobes are in such a way that they dont push the camshaft up. this means that the sprockets aren't going to rotate once I tighten down on them, like they did last time.

i'm making sure I take the time to do things right.....like I should have done from the get-go....unrushed (off work early, and tommorows my day off)

good news , is that I dont think I bent a valve. The crank turns freely, and im guessing that if a valve was bent, then it wouldnt be like this.

Ill post an update in a little bit

[-o< 8-[
 
alrighty,


so I set the timing, and got the caps and idler assembly back in, and its still right on TDC1.4. and in time with the sprockets. :D :D :D :D

just gonna pop in my tensioner, carbs, and airbox before I start her up!


[-o< [-o< [-o< [-o< [-o< [-o< [-o<
 
cams

cams

Bad news poot it means nothing that the motor turns thru now, there still could be valve damage( I hope not) you wont know till you run it and then do a compression test, I wish you well in this one, let us know
 
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