Help tuning Stage 3 Dynojet on BS 32 carbs

[loud et]

I have completed my rebuild project of my 1980 850 g. Full and proper carb rebuild, new O-rings, new intake boots and O-rings, 4 into 1 exhaust, K&N style/ ape pod filters, Dynojet stage 3 kit.
The bike starts instantly and idles perfectly every time. It starts cold it restarts hot and the throttle is extremely responsive.
The kit came with 165 ,160 and 155 main Jets.
Installed the Kit as directed, I started with the 165 Jets, mixture screws at 4.5 turns out, and the needle clip in the middle of 5 positions. Freshly oiled filters.
During this whole tuning process the bike starts, idles, and cruises smoothly. It accelerates strong and smooth up through the mid-range , wot is where I am having my problem. Anything over half throttle it would cut out and bog. That would suggest rich so I took off the pods to test with increased air flow and sure enough I had full and aggressive, wide open throttle to red line. I reinstalled the Pod filters and began changes.

Change 1 - dropped to 160 main and raised needle clip to 2nd slot from the top. Smaller jet was better. I could take a roll on further into the RPM range but wide open throttle was still choppy. At this point the bike felt like it could not make an aggressive pass in traffic.

Change2- dropped to the 155 main Jets which are the smallest in the kit and left the needle clip in the second from the top position.
Startup Idle, and mid-range are still perfect I can do a smooth slow Roll on high into the rpm range but a fast wide open throttle does not accelerate well and is still choppy and surging. At this point the wide open throttle acceleration was better but I would still not want to try to make an aggressive pass in traffic.
I had the bike fully warmed up on each test .

Open to suggestions on the next move you would make if this was your setup.
Suggestions?
Questions?

I guess the main though would be get some 150 and 145 jets or mikuni equivalent size......
Just seeing if anyone has other input in the needle or any other dynojet tricks.

 

[stain]

Get the K&N filters. Those APE, EMGO style cone filters do not flow enough at WOT. I had this exact same problem on my 850G with your exact set up. I kept dropping jet sizes to no avail. I finally got the recomended K&N filters and ran the 165's---problem solved.

 

[GS1150Pilot]

The APE filters do fine. They are not EMGO crap.

Bill (chef1366) will hopefully step in here and help. I'm talking to him currently about running BST36s on my 1150.

 

[geol]

Just for grins, pop the tops on your carbs and put your stock jet needles back in and see how it does. Put the 160 mains in. Also, 4.5 turns out is about the limit and it would be better to go up a size on the pilot jet and not have to turn out the pilot mix screws so far. The springs under the screws provide mechanical hold so they don't rattle out and 4.5 turns leaves little tension from the springs on your mix screws. You get a whole lot of gas with the DJ jet needles and most of the time, there can't be a corresponding larger amount of air no matter what you do with regard to the pods.

 

[loud et]

(One small correction, the DJ needles have 6 slots) Regardless, my start point was the same at the 3rd slot down.
I am reading all your responses and taking it all in.
In the meantime I did talk to Dynojet tech support.
I gave him the whole story below and he left me with this:
First drop the clip from the 2nd slot down to the 4th.
If that fixes it, good.....if it doesn't he said then also swap back to the 160 main.
I did just drop the clip to the 4th slot down and took a test ride. It was a short ride, barely 10 minutes and it seemed to improve at the end when the bike was more fully warmed up.
My son goes to his mom tomorrow night so I will have time for a long test ride to see if the clip drop truly helped. I will also try to swap to the 160 and compare those two settings.
I'm close.......I have to get it best I can before BC Rally in a 2 weeks.
Appreciating everyones input.

 

[ShadowFocus603]

I find it odd the problems you are having. I just recently started re-jetting my 850 and went UP on the main as my plugs were showing lean doing chops. Also went down a clip on the needle to richen the midrange. I am bumping up to a 50 pilot to avoid having the mixture screwed so far out (I'm at or around 5-6 turns out right now). Rather than just throwing jets at it, have you done any plug chops to ascertain exactly what its doing at WOT when it starts to run rough? BTW I am running APE pods and the stage 3 as well. I ended up switching out the DJ main jet for an actual Mikuni 160 (It's about two sizes bigger, DJ165 = Mikuni 155).

 

[loud et]

I did 2 chops on the setup under "change 2". It's the first time I ever did it. I've been lucky with all my other GS's.....they all were easy to get running.
I have seen a picture chart before of plug conditions... all I can say for certain is they were not black, sticky or wet. They had an overall creamy color with some darker brown around the electrode. I checked #3+4 plugs.
Once again tomorrow after work I will run the 4th clip down, 155 main setup and try some chops.
Then I will swap to the 160 main and check for any plug difference or performance change.

Edit: yes I did the chop at the wot/ breaking up point.

 

[Steve]

...I have to get it best I can before BC Rally in a 2 weeks.

Psssst. Hey, Adam. Not sure how to tell you this, but in two weeks you will already have been BACK from the rally for a couple of days.

Not that this adds any pressure to the situation. :-\\\

.

 

[stain]

I am just saying I have the Exact same bike with the Exact same set up. I had the Exact same problem. K&N filters-----problem gone.

 

[Steve]

Not doubting you or arguing the point, but I find it interesting, because the APE pods are often suggested as a more-affordable alternative, but similar quality, to the K&N pods.

.

 

[loud et]

No test ride tonight. I was exhausted from work.

 

[Guest]

Sounds like the pods are over oiled

 

[blowerbike]

when tuned right using quality filters my experience is that the bike runs the same with filter off/filters on.
i do NOT oil my filters...i don't ride near a beach or in the desert....
i have NEVER had premature engine/cylinder wear from K&N's dry.
this is just my experience from a performance view point.
and the APE filters are fine but there is a reason they are half price....i have used the same filters and APE is not the only company that offers these....more of a repackage thing.
emgo's have caused me much grief tuning a 16 valve...shlt filters they are...bad shape and flow and low volume.

 

[loud et]

Well chef and blower bike........ I'm going to wash and dry these filters and not oil them and give that a test. Then I will tune from there if necessary. At least I will know that it is not over oiled filters. Thank you

 

[loud et]

I can't believe it. They were over oiled! That caused the hesitation and surging pull I was experiencing at wot.
I put some gas in a coffee can and dunked and swirled each filter for 30 seconds followed by a hot water rinse. I used my leaf blower to blow the water out.
Problem solved. I took it hard right through the gears up to 100mph. I wound each gear out to redline and felt nothing but pull.
I the 155 is the leanest jet in the kit. I am going to try the original instruction of 165 main and 3rd clip down. If it causes issues I will find the middle ground. I can get it from here. I couldnt figure out why it was acting rich. No air I see. Wow.
Thank you guys so much. I guess Dynojet techs have nothing on you.
Happy happy. Joy Joy.

 

[loud et]

If I want my filters red .....I'm using food coloring from now on! jk

 

[stain]

Are the APE filters even meant to be oiled? I have an unused set but did not see anywhere that it says to oil them.

 

[loud et]

Are the APE filters even meant to be oiled? I have an unused set but did not see anywhere that it says to oil them.

I don't think anybody really knows the story with K&N and the APE pods. I dont kniw if they are truly identical, same maker.....or very similar and a cheap manufactures and are of inferior quality. Or who knows, they could be better. Point is, i have never seen any definitive I comparison. I oiled the ones on my 1100E with no problem.
As has been said, emgo pods are the Devils children. I don't think APE performance would promote junk pods with their name on the package. They are pro quality parts people.

 

[blowerbike]

K&N and what APE sells are not the same...FOR SURE.
again the ape pods are fine filters but not the same as K&N's...not even made the same when compared side by side.
in the past the filters you have was called simply "offset ovals" and my dealers told me NOT to oil them.
i didn't because in most cases it's not needed and restricts flow.
for people in the future...just do the jet kit and ride the bike with no filters and see how it runs through the RPM range.
if it's good and you install the filters and it runs bad...well there you have it

 

[Guest]

Glad it was that easy