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honing

  • Thread starter Thread starter nitro3custom
  • Start date Start date
most people on this site are to cheap to buy rings let a lone have a bore job with new pistons...
a ball hone works fine even when pushing 40psi of boost with alky.
this is on a used kit that is still within specs.
the cheap blade hones are crap.
this thread is just confusing a lot of people in my opinion.
 
Nessism said:
No disrespect to Jay but I call BS on assertions that bottle brush hones are inappropriate. Cylinders wear with usage, that's why Suzuki lists a Service Limit for wear in the service manual. Further, cylinder wear does not occur uniformly down the cylinder, nor does it occur consistently around the cylinder front to back. Bottom line is there will be various low and high spots within a used cylinder, but the cylinder may still be within the service limit. Breaking the glaze in cylinders like this is critical since the rings will be somewhat challenged to seal in the first place considering the cylinder is not perfect.

Straight hones have more difficulty conforming to the small irregularities of worn cylinders than a ball hone. I suspect that's why ball hones were invented in the first place. Sure, you could hammer away at the cylinder with a straight hone and eventually you will cover all the surface area (low spots included), but you will also take out more metal than a ball hone would. I suspect this would be doubly the case if using a professional Sunnen hone machine which is very ridged with large flat stones. Hones like this will make the cylinder rounder and with less taper than a ball hone, but it will also increase the piston to wall clearance - possibly throwing it out of spec.

It's easy to say "if there is low spots it needs bored" but not everyone wants to spend the money on a bore job and new pistons ($500?) if their old parts are within the service limit. It's sort of like lapping the valves into the old seats; sure a valve job is the "proper" fix, but again, not every one has $160 laying around to pay for this.

Do what you want but in my view a ball hone is the proper tool for the job.
Click to expand...

I agree. Most of us are trying to turn a $500 motorcycle into something that runs good but will only ever be worth more $1500.

Even a set of rings and gasket set costs me $330 up here in Cunuckistan.

Brian
 
I see very few used cylinders that don't clean up with just a few strokes on the hone. If it is out of round, then you feel that immediatly. Then if you still want to run it, then I guess a bottle brush hone is the choice.

Without going into how we finish bores, I can say we don't remove much at all when glaze breaking.

As a top shop, we don't send blocks out to customers that wouldn't clean up with just a few strokes. If you are trying to salvage badly worn cylinders in your garage, that is a different story.

As for why they were invented, it is for applications where there is no real hone available, such at the racetrack. You will see NHRA guys using them at the track trying to get a sleeve to go one more round.

On an interesting note, we are a warehouse distributor for the people who make the ball hones. We sell the small ones for tight valve guides. ( altho we hone guides with a Sunnen hone.)
 
Big Jay said:
As a top shop, we don't send blocks out to customers that wouldn't clean up with just a few strokes. If you are trying to salvage badly worn cylinders in your garage, that is a different story.
Click to expand...

Jay, this forum is full of garage mechanics, and some pretty good ones at that. Lots of us rebuild engines at home where all that's needed is to break the glaze and install new rings. Most of the time these engines have blown a head gasket or similar as opposed to worn out cylinders in need of a bore job. We aren't hammering the cylinder with hundreds of hone strokes so that a ball hone will cause the cylinder to go out of round or anything; just enough to get a nice cross-hatch pattern and then we call it done. Given this type of need there is nothing wrong with a ball hone. They are superior to similarly prices 3 blade flat hones and have proven their value countless times.

I don't think anyone here would discourage someone from taking there cylinder to someone like you for a hone job, but I also don't think there is anything wrong with doing it at home either.
 
Last edited:
I do too many top ends to use a bunch of different size ball hones. One straight hone can do all the top ends no matter the size bore. Both hones work well on glazed cylinders. Now if someone wants to use a ball hone on a project bike then that’s fine but ball hones aren’t productive enough to use in a professional shop.
 
Graham said:
I do too many top ends to use a bunch of different size ball hones. One straight hone can do all the top ends no matter the size bore. Both hones work well on glazed cylinders. Now if someone wants to use a ball hone on a project bike then that?s fine but ball hones aren?t productive enough to use in a professional shop.
Click to expand...

Those of us running professional shops probably wouldn't be asking advise about hones on this forum. For the rest of us they work fine.
 
Local shop by me used a ball hone on my first GS1000 cylinder. They had a box full of them. Didn't feel like running back for the second cylinder so bought my own hone from http://enginehones.com/
 
Last edited:
Nessism said:
Local shop by me use a ball hone on my first GS1000 cylinder. They had a box full of them. Didn't feel like running back for the second cylinder so bought my own hone from http://enginehones.com/
Click to expand...

I have seen other shops use them too. There is just no need in having a box of ball hones when you can use one straight hone and it works just as well.
 
Nessism said:
Jay, this forum is full of garage mechanics, and some pretty good ones at that. Lots of us rebuild engines at home where all that's needed is to break the glaze and install new rings. Most of the time these engines have blown a head gasket or similar as opposed to worn out cylinders in need of a bore job. We aren't hammering the cylinder with hundreds of hone strokes so that a ball hone will cause the cylinder to go out of round or anything; just enough to get a nice cross-hatch pattern and then we call it done. Given this type of need there is nothing wrong with a ball hone. They are superior to similarly prices 3 blade flat hones and have proven their value countless times.

I don't think anyone here would discourage someone from taking there cylinder to someone like you for a hone job, but I also don't think there is anything wrong with doing it at home either.
Click to expand...

Ed;
You are correct. If there is now other way to break the glaze, they will work. It would be better than putting fresh rings in a used non-honed cylinder.

If you read my original response, I stated we wouldn't use one on a customers cylinder, not that they guy in his garage shouldn't.
 
Nessism said:
No disrespect to Jay but I call BS on assertions that bottle brush hones are inappropriate. Cylinders wear with usage, that's why Suzuki lists a Service Limit for wear in the service manual. Further, cylinder wear does not occur uniformly down the cylinder, nor does it occur consistently around the cylinder front to back. Bottom line is there will be various low and high spots within a used cylinder, but the cylinder may still be within the service limit. Breaking the glaze in cylinders like this is critical since the rings will be somewhat challenged to seal in the first place considering the cylinder is not perfect.

Straight hones have more difficulty conforming to the small irregularities of worn cylinders than a ball hone. I suspect that's why ball hones were invented in the first place. Sure, you could hammer away at the cylinder with a straight hone and eventually you will cover all the surface area (low spots included), but you will also take out more metal than a ball hone would. I suspect this would be doubly the case if using a professional Sunnen hone machine which is very ridged with large flat stones. Hones like this will make the cylinder rounder and with less taper than a ball hone, but it will also increase the piston to wall clearance - possibly throwing it out of spec.

It's easy to say "if there is low spots it needs bored" but not everyone wants to spend the money on a bore job and new pistons ($500?) if their old parts are within the service limit. It's sort of like lapping the valves into the old seats; sure a valve job is the "proper" fix, but again, not every one has $160 laying around to pay for this.

Do what you want but in my view a ball hone is the proper tool for the job.
Click to expand...

Completely agree.

If the decision is to just fit new rings to pistons and cyls within size spec, ball hone is the best tool for the job for the reasons in the quote above.

In forty years in the engine reconditioning industry, i have bored and honed thousands of cylinders from every kind of engine. I have used every kind of machine and equipment there is for boring and honing.

The spring loaded stone type "glaze busters" are a waste of time for a number of reasons. In this application ball hones are the tool for the job.

Footy.
 
Kris in Tehachapi and I use them on our bikes. They seat the rings nicely.
 
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