How do i remove these screws -- any ideas

[Suzuki_Don]

I needed to remove the three screws securing the kickstarter shaft holder on my GS550B. I tried everything, but nothing worked. The impact driver just mangled the screw heads. This is what they looked like before I started.

Also can anyone tell me if this kick shaft spring is off a GS550, it looks like it is off a GS750 to me. Any opinions.

 

[Suzuki_Don]

So as a last resort I had to drill the heads off the countersunk screws. These screws must have been Loctited in. I tried heat, impact driver, etc. but nothing worked.

So now I need advice on how to remove the remaining part of the screws left in the case, considering that they must have Loctite on them. Do I heat the area with a gas flame and try the Ezi-out method, or just drill them out and clean the hole with a tap to remove the last of the metal threads.

Please give me some advice.

 

[Suzuki_Don]

Another view of how the screws ended up after impact driver did it's work. On the other side of the kick start shaft this time.

 

[gustovh]

Grom the looks of the screws, the philips head was the wrong size. There is a difference between Metric and SAE philips heads. That said, I would drill the old screws out with and undersized drill and clean the threads out with a tap. You may find that during drilling the screws may just spin right out, either way it shouldn't be difficult to clean the threads. If you use loctite in reassembly use the white.
V

 

[Guest]

dont worry don, its been done before

dont worry don, its been done before

i would stay away from an ezy out since it is a critical application and as those screws are most likely loctited - the ezy out might snap - you dont want that nightmare
i would carefully drill it out
if you could work out the depth of the screws that should help with the drilling (depth)
good luck
and use allen head screws for re-asembly and medium grade loctite (the one against vibration only)

 

[Guest]

Grom the looks of the screws, the philips head was the wrong size.

i found that the impact driver metric philips size 3 was a perfect fit
i went for the impact driver straight away and went really hard the first try (kind of all or nothing approach)- and still nearly stripped them

 

[Suzuki_Don]

The depth of the screws is OK PSY. As they are not in blind holes. The screws come through the other side of the aluminium housing.

Another picture showing how much the screws come through the housing. Not much at all.

 

[Guest]

The screws come through the other side of the aluminium housing.

they may pass through then, as you drill them

 

[Suzuki_Don]

Any further thoughts on this problem from from anyone else. My main issue is if they have Loctite on them how do I make it let go so I can extract the screw.

 

[Guest]

C'ant tell from the pictures, but if you can drill and tap a smaller hole from the other side, you could now screw in a bolt. As you thighten it, it might start unscrewing the stuck one. Heat it a bit with flame while tightening.
Am I clear?, could it be done?, Enough clearance for drill and tap?

 

[Go Mifune]

Next time don before you drill them try to put a slot for a regular flat head screwdriver in it with a dremel tool. If I were you I would just drill them out and maybe try to force the closed allen head wrench head into the newly drilled hole and try to back it out. Of course a little heat and wd 40 wouldnt hurt.
Good Luck

 

[silverhorse47]

Don if you have a drill bit centered, even within the ballpark, on the shaft of a bolt/screw when you drill it out you will be fine. You run into problems when the start of the hole is off center. Yours look pretty good in the photos, to me.

Any colour of locktite just shatters when the support of the shaft of the bolt is drilled away. It has no integrity of it's own, and simply serves to 'fill in the gaps' where threads are not perfectly machined and torqued. When you drill out almost the entire shaft of a bolt, it kind a shrinks away from the contact the threads are making with one another, which is cam-shaped, and the locktite is not designed to resist this type of force. It is designed to resist sheer and vibration.

If the divot in your countersink is slightly off, just start the drill bit boring in, then once you have a bit of a bite, gently angle the bit towards the center and push gently till you have it on center. Then gently and gradually, so you don't break the bit, move the drill til the bit is at a right angles and centered on the shaft of the bolt. You are using the side of the bit to do a bit of grinding with this operation, so go easy and give it time to accomodate the request. Then, once you are satisfied with the alignment, drill the hole through. Taking time with this one step will make the rest of the job simple.

Do exactly the same thing with progressively larger bits, until only a shell and the threads of the bolt remain. Then use an easy out to get the crap out of the hole.

I have found through many disasters and many hand held drilling, tapping and rescue operations involving steel bolts in aluminum heads etc.,

1)the biggest mistake is in putting too much pressure on the correct sized drill bit, and snapping it off in the hole. If the bit is bending...it will break. Do not bend the bit.
2)Not using the correct, small drill bit to get the initial hole on centre.
3)Using too large a drill bit to start, hoping to avoid the above, and drilling into the housing. Of course the large aluminum chips splashing from the hole are a good clue that one should stop this idiocy immediately.
4)Panicking when all seems lost, rather than just drilling a larger hole to get rid of all corruption, retapping the hole, inserting the right helicoil, if necessary, and bolting the part back on.

The correct thing to do is to drill out the old bolt or screw incrementally, using progressively larger drill bits, until only a mere shell of the bolt is left, connected to the threads, then use an easy out.
If you are unsuccessful and have buggered up the threads, simply re-drill the hole with the correct over-sized bit, and insert a heli coil with the correct tool, and bolt up the part.

I hope this helps.

S.



Don't be afraid of this operation. Keep the drill bit square to the hole and go along slowly, and you will be successful.

 

[Guest]

yeah, i was just thinking that since it's not a blind hole - you can drill through the bolt, drill most of the bolt out and then use ezy-out since there wont be much resistance any more from the bolt so the ezy out should not break
apart from the heli-coil, there are solid inserts that you can use if you happen to damage the threads on the hole, eg
http://fulltorque.com/

more info on stuck screws
http://www.motorcycle.com/how-to/how-to-extract-stuck-screws-3440.htm

 

[Suzuki_Don]

Thanks for all the help guys.
First of all to you PSYGUY. You?re always the first to reply, I guess that?s because you live in NZ and are on a similar time zone.

To McCLOUD. You are quite clear in your explanation, but I cannot obtain enough room to come in from the other side.

To GO MIFUNE. I couldn?t put a slot in them as they are countersunk screws and below the surface of the shaft holder. Besides the impact driver could only bugger up the head of the Phillips screw so I imagine it would do the same to slotted screw heads. I did not understand about the allen head wrench.

To SILVERHORSE47. The drill divots are pretty much on centre as I drilled out the Phillips head which naturally centred the drill. That was good info on the loctite and how it works.
When you say use an easy out to get the crap out of the hole, how does that work. I thought an easy out was to put in the centre of a hole drilled in a bolt and turning anti clock wise it extracted the bolt. Is it best to drill right down to the threads and then try and pick the threads out with something sharp and then use a 6mm tap to clean things up.
I didn?t even think of using a RECOIL if my drill ran off centre or I buggered up the thread in some way. Especially as I have dozens of RECOILS in different sizes in my store.

Thanks again guys and a SPECIAL THANKS to the Resources Site for a venue to air my problems and get plenty of advice.

SILVERHORSE thanks for such a long, exhaustive explanation. Sometimes explanations are a bit brief and a bit hard to follow.

Cheers
Don

 

[silverhorse47]

Don, yes, 'crap' was meant to convey 'the shell of the drilled out bolt including the threads'. And yes, that is exactly how an easy out works. They are brittle because they have to be harder than the bolt they are extracting (otherwise the grippy bits would round off instead of grabbing the inside of the hole) and do snap unless they are used correctly.
Usually when they break it's because the hole is off center and/or not enough of the bolt is drilled out. The torque on the threads has to be relieved before an easy out works...they are simply not designed to un-torque a bolt, but rather to extract already loose material, and they only apply a bit of turning grip down in the hole. The correct easy out in any application is only slightly smaller than the bolt it is meant to extract.
I really like the look of those 'fulltorque' repairs...it almost makes me wish something would break...ok, so maybe I shouldn't have said that....
Good luck with your repair.
S.

 

[Suzuki mad]

As its a good start for drilling go with a 3mm drill and follow the line down. Then move out to a 3.5 as these are 4mm screw threads. Hopefull as you drill the remains will unscrew.

DON'T use an easy out. Thats just more problems than you need right now.

The lock tight normally lets go very easily, looks like you were just unlucky on this one.

Suzuki mad

 

[Shaughn]

If you can,

Drill it from the back, using a standard pitch, rh, high speed steel, drill that
is about 75% the minor diameter of the bolt. Drilling from the back will turn it the correct way to spin it out the front, and will likely come right out. Worth borrowing a 90degree drill if need be. Just go slow. Drilling from the front is less likely to get it out, as even with a through hole, sometime the back side of the hole is tapered due to the original tap not being used to cut all the way through.

 

[Guest]

The correct easy out in any application is only slightly smaller than the bolt it is meant to extract.

:-k good info here for folks that complain of braking an ezy out when in fact they used it in a wrong way (not drilling the bolt enough and aplaying too much torque to it)

 

[Suzuki_Don]

Hi guys, thanks again. The bolt size is actually 6mm and not 4mm. I drilled out all three screws with a 1/8" (3.18mm) drill. Two of the screws turned about 1/4 of a turn as I was drilling them. EZI OUT into the screws, turn left with pair of pliers and out they came. See pic below.

Now two more to do and all should be sweet.

On the same kind of issue I have found that when a screw is tight in its position and will not undo (as in rubber carb manifold to cylinder head screws), it has more to do with the head of the screw locking down on the surface than the screw thread being seized in it's corresponding thread in the parent metal.

If you use an implement, short 1/4" bar maybe two or three inches long and hit the head of the screw sharply from all four sides the screw will often undo using normal tools, no impact driver required. That is how I removed my manifold screws and many others.

I could not do it in this case because the screws were countersunk and I could not get at the screw heads. Just another tip for others.

Cheers
Don

 

[NetBSD]

reverse drill bits are yer friend, be a good idea to go grab a set and keep them handy.