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how do you take out the splines from the tire

  • Thread starter Thread starter NES07DEZ
  • Start date Start date
Giblet said:
....Redman was present when the hub adapter failed on my first Texas hill country ride. It gave way as I attempted to ride up a small incline which resulted in my descending the incline quite rapidly, BACKWARDS!
...
Click to expand...

Was about 5 of us, standing around with puzzled looks on our faces. Huh? What? Huh? Clutch? Transmission?
Leon Focus Frenzy properly dignosed the situation from about a 100 feet away. In next few days we all learned alot. And now say same thing: Lube that hub every time rear wheel is off. And if you get a bike, inspect the hub, and have to remove hub to fully inspect it.

Oh, NES, to answer your question of how to remove the hub: Yes, like others have said, basicaly have to pull it or pry it out with two levers at same time.
 
As to the mechanic, the answer is no - he wasn't obligated to grease the splines or even tell you about it. You hired him to change a tire and that's what he did.

It's up to you, the owner, to know the requirements of your motorcycle and tell the mechanic what needs to be done. How is one person to know the special needs and quirks of every motorcycle out there? If you didn't know the splines need grease, why is he expected to?
 
Redman said:
Was about 5 of us, standing around with puzzled looks on our faces. Huh? What? Huh? Clutch? Transmission?
Leon Focus Frenzy properly dignosed the situation from about a 100 feet away. In next few days we all learned alot. And now say same thing: Lube that hub every time rear wheel is off. And if you get a bike, inspect the hub, and have to remove hub to fully inspect it.
Click to expand...

I think someone put best about Leon when they said "handy as back scratcher to an itchin man". Almost the first thing I checked when I got my 81 GS1KG home. Leon actually called me a couple of days after I got home from that trip with that final diagnosis. I now have a spare adapter from an 80 GS1KG that I hold on to.
 
flyingace said:
As to the mechanic, the answer is no - he wasn't obligated to grease the splines or even tell you about it. You hired him to change a tire and that's what he did.

It's up to you, the owner, to know the requirements of your motorcycle and tell the mechanic what needs to be done. How is one person to know the special needs and quirks of every motorcycle out there? If you didn't know the splines need grease, why is he expected to?
Click to expand...

IMO that's the difference between a slack jawed wrench turner and a good mechanic. There are certainly more of the former and this guy was one.
 
I think the old notion of "customer service" went out the window a long time ago. These days you're on your own unless you have something like this site & its members :clap: to help you out.

doctorgonzo said:
IMO that's the difference between a slack jawed wrench turner and a good mechanic. There are certainly more of the former and this guy was one.
Click to expand...
 
Good info. I've run across Krytox before, but it's horrifically expensive. McMaster-Carr lists it at $16.00 for half an ounce, or $39.34 for 2 ounces.

The Honda moly paste is easy to find (there are zillions of Honda motorcycle dealers) cheap ($8-$11 for a lifetime supply depending on the dealer's Bastard Markup Quotient) and effective.

Once you correct the metallurgical defect with the 82-83 splines by replacing them with the earlier or later splines, you can cross this particular failure off your list as long as you keep the splines lubed with the Honda moly paste.

As far as I know, I and the other high-mileage shaftie mavens have not seen or experienced a spline failure with the harder splines. There's a used '79 unit in my GS850 that I put in after the original failed at about 30,000 miles (20 miles from home and out of cell phone range...:mad: ). It's at 98,000 hard miles now, and was showing no wear aside from cosmetic surface scuffing during the last tire change at 96K. You can still see the faint machining marks in the teeth left over from the manufacturing process.


Again, this is a defect in the original part (insufficient hardening treatment, probably) that affects all 82-83 GS shafties and some '81 shafties. If you have a light gold-colored spline adapter in your rear wheel, it ABSOLUTELY WILL FAIL in the most inconvenient possible time and place no matter what it's lubricated with or how hard you wish upon a star. If you wish to inspect yours, you must clean all the grease and metal chips off a section and peer deep inside, which is very difficult while it is still mounted on the bike. This takes dedication, time, and lots of solvent, rags and q-tips -- if a mechanic tells you "yeah, it looked OK", that is not sufficient.

Replace it with an earlier model adapter (flat black in color) or a later model/new part (silver in color) at the earliest opportunity, lubricate it whenever the rear wheel is off with small amounts of Honda 60% moly paste, and ride happy.
 
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I'm afraid I am with flying ace on this one, you can hardly blame the mechanic who changed the tire.
As he said, the mechanic cannot be expected to know every quirk about every motorcycle, and no, you cannot expect him to sit down do a few hours research on the bikes rear wheel, just in case there is something in there you should know about, where does it stop?
Hypohteticaly speaking, does he have to look see if there was a problem with the wheel bearing retainers, or the bearings themselves, how about the little hole in the rim that carries the tubeless valve, how about researching if certain year models had a casting flaw in the rims and the spokes break off, or if the seal/o-ring that seals the oil in the final drive around the driving spline needs a modification or replacment every so many miles, that the rear axle is prone to some malady that the G owners have found, and needs correcting with x y or z method?
What about the brake caliper while the wheel is off....etc etc, but you get the picture, you can't expect the guy to reserch for hours, just in case, the tire change job, only cost a few bucks anyway.

I have been riding my GS1000G since 81 and have clocked up more than 376 000 KM on it, have owned a few GS's including 850's G and L and 3 1000G's some of which I have built from the ground up, so consider myself pretty clued up on the nuances, strong and weak points of the shaft driven GS's, but even I am learing every day from the wealth of knowlage from the members of this great site.
In 376 000KM I have never had, or heard of this malady on the GS before reading this thread, guess mine must have the black or silver uprated spline ring in the rear wheel, but I will certainly be checking when the wheel comes off.
 
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Flyboy said:
I'm afraid I am with flying ace on this one, you can hardly blame the mechanic who changed the tire.
As he said, the mechanic cannot be expected to know every quirk about every motorcycle, and no, you cannot expect him to sit down do a few hours research on the bikes rear wheel, just in case there is something in there you should know about, where does it stop?
Hypohteticaly speaking, does he have to look see if there was a problem with the wheel bearing retainers, or the bearings themselves, how about the little hole in the rim that carries the tubeless valve, how about researching if certain year models had a casting flaw in the rims and the spokes break off, or if the seal/o-ring that seals the oil in the final drive around the driving spline needs a modification or replacment every so many miles, that the rear axle is prone to some malady that the G owners have found, and needs correcting with x y or z method?
What about the brake caliper while the wheel is off....etc etc, but you get the picture, you can't expect the guy to reserch for hours, just in case, the tire change job, only cost a few bucks anyway.

I have been riding my GS1000G since 81 and have clocked up more than 376 000 KM on it, have owned a few GS's including 850's G and L and 3 1000G's some of which I have built from the ground up, so consider myself pretty clued up on the nuances, strong and weak points of the shaft driven GS's, but even I am learing every day from the wealth of knowlage from the members of this great site.
In 376 000KM I have never had, or heard of this malady on the GS before reading this thread, guess mine must have the black or silver uprated spline ring in the rear wheel, but I will certainly be checking when the wheel comes off.
Click to expand...

That's an impressive number of kms that you and your 1000G have clocked. How many engine rebuilds?

Are you telling us that your rear splines have survived 376,000 kms without a drop of Honda Moly on them. :p

I presume that you have done your own maintenance from new. How often have you lubed the splines? What type of grease have you used?
Your '81 should have the black splines from new.

I agree that under these circumstances, the last or previous mechanics aren't responsible for the spline failure. If the owner presents the bike as a novice to a mechanic, the mechanic should endeavour to cover all likely maintenace needs for the customer. But, unless the mechanic is working for a dealership for that specific model, he can't be expected to know all the potential pitfalls associated with the bike.

IMO, it's vital that you learn to do your own maintenence on these old bikes. You also have greater peace of mind when pushing them along knowing that your life really is in your own hands (excepting hughie's influence of course).

I have used a moly based lithium grease on my 850's splines since 02.
 
New Spline - Where On Fiche?

New Spline - Where On Fiche?

This is great info, I'd be high and dry sometime soon if you all hadn't brought this up. As luck would have it, I have an 82 850G with 32K miles, but have used Honda Moly 60 on the splines since I got it at 17K miles. However if these early 80's splines are toast by 50K miles, I'm going to need to replace it pretty soon. When I look on the parts fiche under Rear Wheel, there's something called a Joint, Hub Driven part 64680-45113 for about $100. Is that it, or is it under the Propeller Shaft section of the fiche?
 
DPage said:
This is great info, I'd be high and dry sometime soon if you all hadn't brought this up. As luck would have it, I have an 82 850G with 32K miles, but have used Honda Moly 60 on the splines since I got it at 17K miles. However if these early 80's splines are toast by 50K miles, I'm going to need to replace it pretty soon. When I look on the parts fiche under Rear Wheel, there's something called a Joint, Hub Driven part 64680-45113 for about $100. Is that it, or is it under the Propeller Shaft section of the fiche?
Click to expand...

Yup, that's the critter right there.
 
Flyboy said:
In 376 000KM I have never had, or heard of this malady on the GS before reading this thread, guess mine must have the black or silver uprated spline ring in the rear wheel, but I will certainly be checking when the wheel comes off.
Click to expand...

Believe me, it is quite unerving when the hub adapter fails and you find yourself on (by my estimate) 800 lbs of motorcycle rolling backwards down a short but very :eek: steep slope. My incident triggerd a torrent of discussion about the topic. I replaced the 82 spline with an 80 spline and now have it sitting in my tool box just in case. My 81 1KG still has its original spline.
 
That's an impressive number of kms that you and your 1000G have clocked. How many engine rebuilds?
Click to expand...
None, and still giving me 15Km/L on gas and using minimal oil, had the head and barrels off a long time ago to fix the typical GS base gasket leaking oil, but no parts ever replaced in the motor, that is why we love them, I could never part with her, we have been together too long.

Are you telling us that your rear splines have survived 376,000 kms without a drop of Honda Moly on them. :p
Click to expand...
Yup, wasn't even aware of the spline issue until now, and I would not bring anything with the "H" badge on it anywhere near my bike, not even the RR ;)

I presume that you have done your own maintenance from new. How often have you lubed the splines? What type of grease have you used?
Your '81 should have the black splines from new.
Click to expand...
I bought the bike with 15 000Km's on, I was working as I motorcycle courier on a little GPZ 305 and it wasn't up to the job so I wanted something that would be reliable and cheap to maintain, so a chain drive was out, I rode approximately 800Km a day for 10 years.
I did my trade as a motor mech, and am clued up technically, so yes I did all my own maintenance, from when I owned it, being my bread and butter, I also looked after it, and made sure I did a lot of preventative maintenance.
I just used a common local moly type graphite grease, every time the wheel came off for a tire change, wich was about every 24 000Km, never pulled the wheel especialy to lube up the inside.

But sadly, the years of work are showing quite badly and a "frame up" rebuild is needed.
It will proberly cost me more than the bike will ever be worth, and I will over capitalise seriously, but she is my baby and we have come a long way together in the last 27 years, also don't know too many people who have owned one bike for that long, I just cannot see myself parting ways with her.
Watch this space for the rebuild thread.
 
Since I have an '83 with almost 50K miles, this thread convinced me to remove the wheel/hub and take a look. Glad I did. The hub splines where at least 80% worn with only narrow ridges remaining. Fortunately, I have a spare '79 engine and chassis from which I took the hub and replaced it. I don't know how many miles the spare bike had, but the splines were like new. I have to agree that the design of these splines is under-engineered. They seem small for the power and weight of these bikes.

The purpose of this post is to re-empasize the point that you CAN"T diagnose worn splines without removing the hub from the wheel. A small fraction of an inch at the very front of the splines was not worn at all. This is the part visible when you remove the wheel, and it's easy to conclude they look like new. Don't assume.
 
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Flyboy said:
But sadly, the years of work are showing quite badly and a "frame up" rebuild is needed.
It will proberly cost me more than the bike will ever be worth, and I will over capitalise seriously, but she is my baby and we have come a long way together in the last 27 years, also don't know too many people who have owned one bike for that long, I just cannot see myself parting ways with her.
Watch this space for the rebuild thread.
Click to expand...


If any of us worried about what our bikes were "worth" vs. what we've spent on them, we wouldn't own these wonderful old bikes and thrash them at every opportunity.

We look forward to the rebuild and lots and lots of photos. But please, make sure you post plenty of photos of your baby first with her well-earned patina of miles and years.

Are you doing a mechanical rebuild or are you planning a full cosmetic rebuild as well, with new paint, polishing, etc.?
 
Hi bwringer
I hear you, I am planning to tear her down, every last nut and bolt and rebuild from the ground up, internals as well as cosmetics, the plan is to bring her back to factory original, only better than factory new condition, of course this will probably be a long term project, as the finances dictate, I am not planning on salvaging anything that can not be brought back to mint condition, seeing as that I do not use her for working anymore, she can enjoy her well earned retirement, cruising around when the weather is good, purely to be riden when I feel like going for a ride.
Given the service I have had so far, she should out last me after the rebuild, I promise that I will post plenty pics. especially before and after.
But be warned, this is going to be a long term project, spares for these things aint cheap on this side of the pond, just got a quote for a new stator cover from the local Suz dealer here, 1600 bucks. :eek:
 
Flyboy said:
Hi bwringer
I hear you, I am planning to tear her down, every last nut and bolt and rebuild from the ground up, internals as well as cosmetics, the plan is to bring her back to factory original, only better than factory new condition, of course this will probably be a long term project, as the finances dictate, I am not planning on salvaging anything that can not be brought back to mint condition, seeing as that I do not use her for working anymore, she can enjoy her well earned retirement, cruising around when the weather is good, purely to be riden when I feel like going for a ride.
Given the service I have had so far, she should out last me after the rebuild, I promise that I will post plenty pics. especially before and after.
But be warned, this is going to be a long term project, spares for these things aint cheap on this side of the pond, just got a quote for a new stator cover from the local Suz dealer here, 1600 bucks. :eek:
Click to expand...

Flyboy - $1600.00 US dollars for a stator cover? I have a '79 stator cover I would be happy to sell for a mere $800.00 :) But seriously, don't kill yourself with those kinds of prices. Try Ebay or the for sale section of this site. I know a place in Seattle that I know will have one for about $40. These pieces can be buffed/polished until they look like new.
 
Hi flyingace
No jeeeez 1600 USD would be extortion, 1600 ZAR, that would be about 160 USD, I do keep my eye on ebay, but they are far and few between, and unless I can pick it up real cheap on ebay the shipping to this side of the world would kill the deal anyway, hopefully I am going to be over there for a week late July for the EAA Airventure at Oshkosh, I will bring a shopping list. ;)
Looking for the original orange decal set, can't find anyone who has them, tried reproduction decals and a few others, not sure if you guys got it in the orange and black livery, have not seen any on the forums.
 
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