I think its a bad ground - what should I look for?

[Jagir]

The problem: currently not starting, just hear a click.

It started fine before I installed the new (old) signal lights, BUT before this light installation, when I flicked the the right signal light, it would stay on solid.

I assume this is a bad ground.

I have been through the entire wiring system, inspecting each wire and cleaning and changing contacts as needed, but I only replaced/cleaned what was there. So if there was a bad ground, I may have simply looked at it, wire brushed it, applied some dialectric grease and moved on.

(The battery is good, stator is good....)

I suppose I don't really know how to look for the grounds (what is the symbol on a wiring diagram?). How many should there be? Where are they on the bike? Is there a specific one for the right side signals?

Thanks

 

[tom203]

You hear click, so starter solenoid is activating, and you're sure (? -doublecheck) battery is good, so follow that big wire from solenoid to starter motor and make sure it's still connected. Then make sure big wire from battery negative is anchored to engine- the starter motor is grounded to engine by its bolts. Worry about lights later. What bike is this?

 

[Killer2600]

When you hear this click do the lights on gauges go dim or out? If so make sure your battery is charged, if it is then your battery may be bad or the engine unable to turn.

If they don't change at all then you have connection issues between the battery and starter or the solenoid's contacts are bad.

 

[Redman]

If solenoid clicks, then know that the starter button, clutch switch, starter solenoid and the starter solenoid ground cicruits are all okay. Then if starter not turning over: could be battery doesnt have enough capacity to run the starter motor, or starter is bad, or bad power connection on positive cable, or (speaking of grounds) bad connection on negitive cable to the engine case (on back end of transmission on top).

Or smaller chance that solenoid is clicking, but not really working. Try jumping acroast the big terminals with jumper cable or screw drivers.

Turn signal not blinking would be completly seperate situation from the starter.
If a bulb is on at all, then you know it has a good ground.
Takes the full current of two bulbs to make the flasher flash. If only one bulb comming on, it will not flash.
If one bulb on solid, and other bulb on that side not on; the reason the one is on solid not blinking is that the other one is not on at all. Fix why that one is not on will fix the other not blinking.

Tell us what more you find.

WHat eloectrcial troubleshooting tools you have? VOltmeter? Test lamp probe?

.

 

[Jagir]

bike is 81 GS400
I have a voltage meter which helped me determine that my stator was toast - replaced last year. This battery is new and tests well.

I feel like I am missing something obvious. Will look at these suggestions and report back.

Questions - (assuming the electrical system is all good otherwise) What will happen if I remove a ground and try to start the bike?
Can I simply try to move them to other parts of the frame?
Should I sand off any paint where the ground is connected?
How many grounds should I have?
I did not check the (voltage on the) bulbs in my new (old) signal lights, but I did check the continuity. Could these somehow be affecting my starting?

Thanks.

 

[tom203]

Focus on why starter motor is not turning despite solenoid clicking-only ground it needs is big black wire from battery negative bolted to engine casing. Big wire from positive battery terminal connects to one electrical stud on solenoid, other stud has big wire that runs down into starter motor- the solenoid clicking connects these two studs together; as a test use screwdriver to connect these two studs together- BEWARE, make sure bike is in neutral and on centerstand. What happens??? worry about lights later

 

[Jagir]

Thanks for the tips all! Haven' had the time to follow up on your responses til now.

When I jump the positive to negative on the starter solenoid I get sparks but no clicking at all.

I should also add that I checked the continuity on the big black ground running from the battery to the engine case. It was kind of crappy (hard to get in there with a tester and wiggle the wire) but I unscrewed the engine bolt that grounds the wire and gave it a pretty good scrubbing, then reattached it all. I was hoping that that was my issue, but not the case.

When this issue started, I got into the starter motor compartment, but put the motor back because:
1) it had been starting fine
2) I have to remove the Cam Chain Tensioner to completely remove the starter motor.

The bike is a 1981 GS400. Stored inside.

 

[Big T]

Well, your starter solenoid could be gummed up, they do that over time

Get out your volt meter and check the + side of the solenoid for voltage, then press the starter button and see what voltage you get

Then repeat on the starter wire side. Naturally, it should be zero volts before you press the starter button

If the + side is 12V+ static and 10.5V with the button pressed, you should be good. If it goes under 10.5V, you've either have a huge draw or a bad battery

If the starter side is less than 10.5 V, clean or replace the solenoid

To clean, carefully remove the solenoid from the bike and undo two small bolts holding on the top and let the top come up. Be sure not to pull up much on the top, as there's a wire in there. Spray some electrcial cleaner in there and see if gunk comes out. See is the contacts are burned or clean. If burned, sand or file til clean, respray and you should be good to go

 

[Steve]

When I jump the positive to negative on the starter solenoid I get sparks but no clicking at all. ...

Just so you know, there is no "positive to negative" on the starter solenoid.

At least not what you likely jumped together.

The only "negative" on the solenoid is the entire outer case, including the mounting ears. The two large posts are a positive wire that is connected directly to the battery and a switched wire that is connected to the starter. No negative. All you did was jumper across the contacts to connect the starter to the battery. You should have heard the starter trying to crank the engine. If you didn't, check your starter. If you have to remove your carbs and cam chain tensioner, so be it, that's what it takes.

.

 

[Jagir]

Thanks for the clarification Steve.

Also thanks for the list of tests to perform. Will get out the voltmeter and test the solenoid,

The starter was my first suspect, but I want to rule everything else out first before going in too deep.

Also, this lingering light flashing problem has been bugging me for an embarrassingly long time.

 

[Jagir]

Well, your starter solenoid could be gummed up, they do that over time

Get out your volt meter and check the + side of the solenoid for voltage, then press the starter button and see what voltage you get

Then repeat on the starter wire side. Naturally, it should be zero volts before you press the starter button

If the + side is 12V+ static and 10.5V with the button pressed, you should be good. If it goes under 10.5V, you've either have a huge draw or a bad battery

On the + side (where the battery is connected to the solenoid), It reads 12.11 before, and then when I turn the ignition key, it drops a volt or two, then when I press the starter, it drops to near 1!

On the solenoid post that leads to the starter it reads 0 then bumps up to 1.3 when I press the ignition.

So battery is only a year old, spent most of it's life not even in the bike. This is the third battery in a few years. That doesn't seem right.

What could be the "huge draw"?

Also, no clicking of the starter when I jump the solenoid.


I feel like there is ant-sized Gremlin in there somewhere and I have been chasing him for about 5 years now....

 

[Big T]

Well, you have a battery problem, not a starter problem. The battery plates are shorted

Since you note multiple batterys, I would suggest that you start with properly setting up the battery, especially with the not overcharging it part

Then, once you've got a good battery, start with the Stator Papers and see what's going on in your charging system

How many of the Top 10 common issues did you skip over?

 

[Redman]

On the + side (where the battery is connected to the solenoid), It reads 12.11 before, and then when I turn the ignition key, it drops a volt or two, then when I press the starter, it drops to near 1!

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..
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I will also say that really sounds like bad battery. When you pull any current out of it the voltage really drops.

You say you have been replacing batterys alot over recent years. And you did say you had charging problem about a year ago.

Just to be safe, take you battery to autoparts store and see if they will load test it for you, just so you will know.
When get new battery, do charge it up with trickel charger before using it (sometimes hard to wait, eh).
And then do test the charging system with volt meter. Overcharging can lead to shortened battery life and other problems, but bike will start well - untill battery is damaged again.

 

[Jagir]

I will also say that really sounds like bad battery. When you pull any current out of it the voltage really drops.

You say you have been replacing batterys alot over recent years. And you did say you had charging problem about a year ago.

Just to be safe, take you battery to autoparts store and see if they will load test it for you, just so you will know.
When get new battery, do charge it up with trickel charger before using it (sometimes hard to wait, eh).
And then do test the charging system with volt meter. Overcharging can lead to shortened battery life and other problems, but bike will start well - untill battery is damaged again.

Alright, will get the battery load tested. What could be eating my batteries? - bad ground somewhere?

I just saw the 10 common issues thread the other day. It wasn't there when I started up on here and I tend to only spend time at thegsresources when things aren't going well.

 

[Jagir]

Well, you have a battery problem, not a starter problem. The battery plates are shorted

Since you note multiple batterys, I would suggest that you start with properly setting up the battery, especially with the not overcharging it part

Then, once you've got a good battery, start with the Stator Papers and see what's going on in your charging system

How many of the Top 10 common issues did you skip over?

Are you saying that I am charging my battery too much (with a tender) or that my bike's system is overcharging it?

 

[Jagir]

New battery and I am rolling again. Suspect the R/R now.

i am now remembering an accidental wrench stroke from a few years ago when I was once removing the battery. I mistakenly connected the solenoid to the R/R with the wrench and was spooked by some sparks. Perhaps that did something ...

 

[Redman]

New battery and I am rolling again. Suspect the R/R now.

...
...

New battery may have you rolling again, but if charging system not working you may find yourself somewere away from home and cant get it started again.

Measure battery voltage with engine at idle, and again with engine at mid-rpm like 4 or 5 thou rpm. Tell us what you find.

.