Installing the dyna s ignition still 2 and 3 plugs not working

[JTGS850GL]

I put the meter on the black and orange wire with key on and got 8.8 and on the 1 and 4 coil I also got 8.8

There should be an Orange/White wire that goes to the coils. What is the voltage on that wire for both coils.

 

[trucker]

Well, first I'd do it to the ones on the bike. If it's too high to read one or both of the plug caps probably has a burnt resistor on board. Sometimes they'll still fire but it saps some of the energy and you're already dealing with low coil voltage. On the stock coils the conductor is stranded copper in the middle and the plug caps just screw on to the wire, so like I said you can just un-screw them and test the caps independently, and also test wire-to-wire without the caps. Cut 1/4" of wire or so to expose fresh copper. Stock caps should be ~10k ohms each. A stock coil should be ~14k with no caps at all.

I think the resistor in the cap is removable: you can unscrew the contact on the plug end. Some have replaced the resistor with a chunk of brass bar and had success bringing them back to life.

From the electrical odds-n-ends link on BikeCliff's site:



I have those NGKs on my bike also and I think they're good for pretty much all 4-cyl GSes. As noted they're only 5k ohms but that's just fine.

I i just check the good coil on bike and still no reading on that one to I am at a loss and the resistor what is that are you talking the brass piece inside the boot

 

[trucker]

There should be an Orange/White wire that goes to the coils. What is the voltage on that wire for both coils.

Orange and white and black to orange are both 8.8 volts

 

[JTGS850GL]

Those voltages are way to low. What is the battery voltage?

 

[trucker]

Those voltages are way to low. What is the battery voltage?

The battery was just bought about a week ago and it is like 12.4 I think

 

[mike_of_bbg]

OK, let me help you out with some pics:

In this one, I have an old OEM plug cap. The DMM is set to 20k Ohms range, and the cap is reading a valid amount of ~9.5k ohms:

 

[mike_of_bbg]

OK, now, if you look down the plug side of the plug cap, you can see the brass part that grabs the end of the plug. Notice that it has a slot cut in it, almost like you could put a flat-head screwdriver on it:

 

[mike_of_bbg]

Now, if you actually unscrew that part from the plug cap, it will come out with this little white chunk. That little white chunk is a resistor, which gives it that ~10k Ohms resistance. That's what burns out. When it does burn out, the resistance will go way up and cuts your spark down. If you can cut a little chunk of brass or similar to replace it you can bring that plug cap back to life.

 

[mike_of_bbg]

And finally, here's my DMM set to 200k Ohms. The red lead is stuck in my plug cap for #1, and the black in the plug cap for #4. You can see it reads ~24.5k Ohms. That's ~14k for the coil itself, plus 5k each for the NGK plug caps.

 

[mike_of_bbg]

I hope those pictures could convey what words could not.

You should measure your battery voltage. New or not, cranking will - and idling can - drain it. Closer to 13 is what you want to see. What you also want to see is <1V drop from battery voltage to coil voltage (at the orange/white wire on each coil). If you're not seeing that then you need to start cleaning connections, and also consider a coil relay mod. Don't skip the connection cleaning, but your voltage drop is frequently from the ignition or kill switches which are a real bear to disassemble, clean, and get back together right.

However, in addition to the low voltage, if you swapped the coil leads and the spark (or lack of spark) followed the coil and not the leads you swapped, then I'd suggest that you have a coil that's not up to snuff. The plug cap issues are common and easy/cheap to fix. These GSes can be pretty forgiving of single issues, but when you get multiple issues going that's when things go south fast. Get it all fixed while you're in there and you can prevent some self-tail-chasing in the future.

 

[mike_of_bbg]

And another thing (no, I'm not just trying to boost my thread count ). Make sure that the Dyna rotor is free to advance. They include a spacer for the electronic ignition bikes. However when I installed mine the spacer was too thick and with the crank end bolt tightened down the rotor could not advance. This was apparently common and I do not know that Dyna has done anything about it. You can sand/grind down the spacer, or find a thinner washer to use in its place. I sanded down the end of the rotor to fix the issue - just about 0.3mm or so. You don't want enough space for the rotor to slip off of the mechanical advance, but you do want it to be able to advance freely. It should still start and idle OK, and of course would not explain a difference between 1-4 and 2-3 sparking, but could cause the bike to run poorly as RPMs increase.

 

[trucker]

And another thing (no, I'm not just trying to boost my thread count ). Make sure that the Dyna rotor is free to advance. They include a spacer for the electronic ignition bikes. However when I installed mine the spacer was too thick and with the crank end bolt tightened down the rotor could not advance. This was apparently common and I do not know that Dyna has done anything about it. You can sand/grind down the spacer, or find a thinner washer to use in its place. I sanded down the end of the rotor to fix the issue - just about 0.3mm or so. You don't want enough space for the rotor to slip off of the mechanical advance, but you do want it to be able to advance freely. It should still start and idle OK, and of course would not explain a difference between 1-4 and 2-3 sparking, but could cause the bike to run poorly as RPMs increase.

Ok good information mike thanks I will have to check my plug resistor tomorrow. I also did not put that spacer on my dyna s was not sure we're it went and was not in the direction. Also how do I mod my coils

 

[mike_of_bbg]

There are lots of potential nuances to the coil relay mod. There are a couple of docs on Mr. BassCliff's little site, if you have not been introduced to it already:

BikeCliff site

http://members.dslextreme.com/users/bikecliff/

Link to some CRM information:

http://members.dslextreme.com/users/bikecliff/images/coil_relay_mod.html

Doc from Mr. Matchless, CRM with Dyna S:

http://members.dslextreme.com/users/storagecliff1/images/DynaS_Coil_RelayMod.pdf

I haven't really read either in a long time. When I did my coil relay mod along with a Dyna S installation, I found and used the + connector on the (now otherwise unused) igniter connector for the relay activation.

 

[JTGS850GL]

If your battery is showing over 12V and you're only seeing 8.8V then you have some serious losses between the battery and the ignition system. You either have a bad switch (ignition, start or kill switch) or one of the connectors are high resistance. Find the offending component and fix it.

 

[trucker]

Yes I didn't think of that my kill switch is bad I have been bypassing it and I forgot all about that I keep saying I need a new then forget would that be cuz of low voltage.


Mike thanks for all the information I am going to look through those site and mod my coils I think I may also just pick up new plugs to those NGK that were listed are only a few bucks each.

 

[trucker]

There are lots of potential nuances to the coil relay mod. There are a couple of docs on Mr. BassCliff's little site, if you have not been introduced to it already:

BikeCliff site

http://members.dslextreme.com/users/bikecliff/

Link to some CRM information:

http://members.dslextreme.com/users/bikecliff/images/coil_relay_mod.html

Doc from Mr. Matchless, CRM with Dyna S:

http://members.dslextreme.com/users/storagecliff1/images/DynaS_Coil_RelayMod.pdf

I haven't really read either in a long time. When I did my coil relay mod along with a Dyna S installation, I found and used the + connector on the (now otherwise unused) igniter connector for the relay activation.

Hello I want to make sure I am reading this right for modify my coils. Do I need 1 relay for both coils or 1 relay for each coil and do I have to wire it up by the coils or can I wire it all in from down by the battery at the end of the wiring harness. Thanks

 

[Guest]

In the coil mod you are cutting the supply from the kill switch to the coils and using that to close the relay and then re-feed the coils directly from the battery "+" through the relay. The relay is not particularly affected by voltage drops so it enables the kill switch to indirectly and reliably feed battery voltage to the coils without causing problems. The variations depend on how the Dyna-S is supplied with power. If your red Dyna-S wire goes to the coils you don't have to do anything else. It needs the same voltage the coils get. Some bikes are hooked up differently. On my bike I just had to follow the orange/white wire about 4" into the wiring bundle and cut it ahead of where the wire from the kill switch splits for both coils.

 

[trucker]

In the coil mod you are cutting the supply from the kill switch to the coils and using that to close the relay and then re-feed the coils directly from the battery "+" through the relay. The relay is not particularly affected by voltage drops so it enables the kill switch to indirectly and reliably feed battery voltage to the coils without causing problems. The variations depend on how the Dyna-S is supplied with power. If your red Dyna-S wire goes to the coils you don't have to do anything else. It needs the same voltage the coils get. Some bikes are hooked up differently. On my bike I just had to follow the orange/white wire about 4" into the wiring bundle and cut it ahead of where the wire from the kill switch splits for both coils.

Thanks on my bike I just rewired it from the coils to the dyna s red wire done with 1 wire. Can I just wire the relay into it there or maybe to far from coils

 

[Guest]

The Dyna-S instructions for my bike go to a coil "+" wire with the long Dyna-S red wire. That is a very thin wire so I assume the ignition draws very little power. That is right in the area were the kill switch feed to the coils is cut for the coil mod. I mounted my relay on the electrics plate near the fuse box. I believe I used #12 wire so there wouldn't be much of a voltage drop. Probably overkill, but it's what I had at the time. It can't hurt to use a larger gauge than is necessary if that answers your question. Generally a larger wire makes up for distance. I'm going from the battery through the relay and then back up to the coils so there might be two or three feet of wire there. I wanted the relay where I could easily get to it.

 

[trucker]

The Dyna-S instructions for my bike go to a coil "+" wire with the long Dyna-S red wire. That is a very thin wire so I assume the ignition draws very little power. That is right in the area were the kill switch feed to the coils is cut for the coil mod. I mounted my relay on the electrics plate near the fuse box. I believe I used #12 wire so there wouldn't be much of a voltage drop. Probably overkill, but it's what I had at the time. It can't hurt to use a larger gauge than is necessary if that answers your question. Generally a larger wire makes up for distance. I'm going from the battery through the relay and then back up to the coils so there might be two or three feet of wire there. I wanted the relay where I could easily get to it.

Thanks that does answer my question cuz that is exactly were I was thinking of mounting the relay