Interesting thing found in electrics

[Danjal]

Well today i finally got the side stand in for the 85 gs550es. Originally the light was beleived to just be on 24/7 from the PO snipping the sidestand wires and connecting them. (Which he did and left me about an inch of wire on each side connected under a wire nut) He took out the sidestand and sensor all together. Well I plugged in the new sidestand and... nada.. light is still on, but it would get a bit dimmer when the sidestand was up. I checked the switch.. worked fine. The hell??? So for ****s and giggles I pulled the oil pressure sensor wire off. Worked perfectly.. Well time to trace wires.. Took the entire gauge cluster apart and off to see the wires running.. trace them back.. and lo and behold the OPS and the side stand light are joined up top.. and it appears to be factory. Both wires come out of the top right (After the main plug) into the relay (? just rows of squares with wires going in and back out) and are connected together. Why the heck are these connected to begin with? The reason I say its factory is its in a clear shrink wrapped tubing with a resistor in between the wires.

As is now it works perfectly, (Mystery resistor is removed) though the tank is still off of it but I can turn the starter over untill it builds up enough oil pressure that it shuts the light off. Thats with the side stand up and down to boot. I just cant figure out why in the world theres a resistor in there, and why the side stand and oil pressure gauge were linked.

So any thoughts on what this mystery resistor is for?

Ps- Previously owned bikes, not bad.. previous owners, bad.

 

[rustybronco]

The resistor you removed, was in fact a diode.
as the bike came from the factory, the light won't go out until oil pressure is being made. put the diode back in, or you become a p.o. you talk about.

here's a diagram for a '83. check Pg 335. http://www.mtsac.edu/~cliff/storage/gs/GS550E-ES-L_1983.PDF
near the oil light, you'll see the diode I'm referring to.

 

[81gs1100]

I do not believe it to be a resistor, instead its a diode, the diode is there to not let electricity flow past/through the bulbs and power the starter relay while the bike isn't in a condition to start safely

So be careful to make sure these safety features arn't over ridden from the removal...

 

[Danjal]

The resistor you removed, was in fact a diode.
as the bike came from the factory, the light won't go out until oil pressure is being made. put the diode back in, or you become a p.o. you talk about.

here's a diagram for a '83. check Pg 335. http://www.mtsac.edu/%7Ecliff/storage/gs/GS550E-ES-L_1983.PDF
near the oil light, you'll see the diode I'm referring to.

The oil light functions properly though. It does not go out until its been turned over quite a few times minimum. About 3-5 seconds. But from a bike thats sitting, turned off its on. Which page can I find the said picture chief? Yeah, I really dont want to become one of those PO's.. id rather do it right the first time so I dont have to guess the second or make someones life hell like these guys are doing.

I do not believe it to be a resistor, instead its a diode, the diode is there to not let electricity flow past/through the bulbs and power the starter relay while the bike isn't in a condition to start safely

So be careful to make sure these safety features arn't over ridden from the removal...

Got ya, I'll pop off the back cover again and see if I can find the wiring for that. Without using the diagram it linked the lights for both the oil pressure sensor and the side stand lights. After tracling both lights back, I didnt go further as I was looking for the back feed between the 2.

Just a simple overview... While not running and I turn the key on the oil and side stand lights come on. I flip the sidestand up and that light goes off now, but the oil light is on. After cranking the motor for a bit it goes out.

I'll check and see if it matters if the sidestand has anything to do with the OPS light or not once the tank is on. Im waiting on a front brake light switch here... they sent me the wrong part.. yay.

Just in a nutshell is there any way I can check if the safety features are working on the starter system? Ie the bike should not start if....

Also... i'll pop the mystery resistor/diode into a circuit and see if its either or. Germanium .3 volts silicone .7 volts to fire if I remember back from the college years correctly. Just need to build a circuit and check voltages.

 

[Danjal]

Electrical system Page 6-20 (Pg. 182) top diagram.. looks like the culprit if I remember right. Though we had it flipped and sitting on the headlight (Nose cap was off at the time) Just the box is flipped upside down when we did it I assume as both wires were on the top of it for us. The OPS light (Bl/W) and the sidestand light (G/W) were linked right across to each other.. both having 2 wires coming out and directly linking with a single set of wires.

6-19 (Pg 181) Its in that picture also. Bottom left. though I cant discern whats what from the drawing.

 

[Redman]

I have seen that diode on the schematics, but had not found it on the bike (but havent look too hard either).

I understand the ES have several things different electrically.

Did you say you found the diode in the instrument cluster?

Only reason I know anything about this is that my (82 1100GK) Oil pressure light and my kickstand warning light always both operate together, and seem to only respond to the oil pressure switch, do not do anything in responce to the kickstand. And I looked into this on the schematic a little bit, but havent really done much with it.

Seems to me that the diode only has effect on the two indicator lights, nothing else (at least on the scematic for my bike).

.

 

[Danjal]

I have seen that diode on the schematics, but had not found it on the bike (but havent look too hard either).

I understand the ES have several things different electrically.

Did you say you found the diode in the instrument cluster?

Only reason I know anything about this is that my (82 1100GK) Oil pressure light and my kickstand warning light always both operate together, and seem to only respond to the oil pressure switch, do not do anything in responce to the kickstand. And I looked into this on the schematic a little bit, but havent really done much with it.

Seems to me that the diode only has effect on the two indicator lights, nothing else (at least on the scematic for my bike).

.

So the sidestand light is on with the oil pressure light regardless of it being up or down? That would make perfect sense for the diode being there between the 2. Feeding electricity across it until the oil light is off. But not back the other way.

 

[Danjal]

The diode is toast. Its acting as a short 24/7, would anyone know off hand what type/number it is?

 

[Redman]

I took another look at schematic relative to that diode.
Here is a sketch I made as I followed each part of the signal circuit (the orange/green wire from the signal fuse).

Looking at this; I conclude that the purpose of the diode is specifically so that the oil pressure swich does light both the oil pressure and the sidestand light, and that the sidestand switch only lights the sidestand light. Again, this is my conclusion only from looking at this schematic. I welcome any other insight.

Also keep in mind that on my bike there is no interlock between the sidestand and the ignition (only have clutch interslock to starter solenoid).
So ... but ... maybe on other bikes that do have such an ignition interlock on the sidestand the diode does serve some other function.

Danjal,
To respond to your more recent question about what specification for the diode: I dont really know but suppose any that was rated for 12 volts and what ever little current requirement would suffice. On mine the current requirement would only be the amperage of one little light bulb (6 watts?). Dont know about yours.

>>>>Later Note:
I have since found that some sand and dried up grease was jammed in the side stand switch and holding it in place. I cleaned that up and now the sidestand switch does operate with the sidestand. And this is what happens: With low oil pressure I have both the oil light and the sidestand light. With engine running the oil light goes out but the sidestand light is on untill I retract the sidestand. With engine running the sidestand light goes off an on with the sidestand.

 

[tkent02]

Looking at this; I conclude that the purpose of the diode is specifically so that the oil pressure swich does light both the oil pressure and the sidestand light, and that the sidestand switch only lights the sidestand light. Again, this is my conclusion only from looking at this schematic. I welcome any other insight.

Why on Earth would that little Japanese engineer have wanted both lights to light up for low oil pressure?
Are we missing some part of the diagram, some little magic wire that goes somewhere else?
Maybe to disable the starter when the sidestand is down or some other function?

 

[Redman]

Why on Earth would that little Japanese engineer have wanted both lights to light up for low oil pressure?
Are we missing some part of the diagram, some little magic wire that goes somewhere else?
Maybe to disable the starter when the sidestand is down or some other function?

Hopefully this is not hijacking Danjal's posting too much.......

Tom,

I have rechecked my Clymer schematics and my Suzuki schematics. Have retraced everything from the kickstand switch back to the kickstand light, and everthing from oil pressure switch back to the oil pressure light - only thing is that didoe.

To quote the owners manaul:
"Sidestand light: With the ignition switch in on position but the engine not running the sidestand check light should be lit. As soon as the engine is started and then after kicking up the side stand the sidestand check light should go out."

The description for the oil pressure light doesnt mention about the sidestand light.

But my therory is that the designer intended for the sidestand light to serve as a backup to the oil pressure light. Yet the people that wrote the owners manaul didnt describe it that way.



.

 

[Redman]

...................

Just a simple overview... While not running and I turn the key on the oil and side stand lights come on. I flip the sidestand up and that light goes off now, but the oil light is on. After cranking the motor for a bit it goes out.
.....................

THis is with the diode removed, corect?



If I understand this circuit on my GK properly,
- If the diode has failed such that it is shorted (conducts both ways) then either the oil pressure switch or the sidestand switch will both light both lights.
- If the diode has failed such that is opened (conducts neiter ways) or is removed then the oil pressure switch will operate the oil pressure light only, and the sidestand swtich will operate the sidestand light only.
- If the diode is installed and operates as it should (conducts in one direction only) then the oil pressure switch will light both lights but the sidestand light can only light the sidestand light.

Seems to be what you are saying you have observed on your 550ES also.

.

 

[LarryA_Texas]

THis is with the diode removed, corect?



If I understand this circuit on my GK properly,
- If the diode has failed such that it is shorted (conducts both ways) then either the oil pressure switch or the sidestand switch will both light both lights.
- If the diode has failed such that is opened (conducts neiter ways) or is removed then the oil pressure switch will operate the oil pressure light only, and the sidestand swtich will operate the sidestand light only.
- If the diode is installed and operates as it should (conducts in one direction only) then the oil pressure switch will light both lights but the sidestand light can only light the sidestand light.

Seems to be what you are saying you have observed on your 550ES also.

.

That's how my 1100G works, and I've assumed it's so that you still get a red light if the oil pressure is low and the bulb is burned out. It's the side stand light, but at least you know something is wrong and the more important warning systems is protected.

 

[Danjal]

Hopefully this is not hijacking Danjal's posting But my therory is that the designer intended for the sidestand light to serve as a backup to the oil pressure light. Yet the people that wrote the owners manaul didnt describe it that way.

Otherway chief as the light for the oil lights up the kickstand light. Pretty much its just a secondary light IMO for the oil pressure in case the first light fails/burns out IMO.

Bah, you beat me to it larry.

FYI Red Im using the clymer too and it says nothing baout the kickstand acting as a secondary OPS light.

 

[Redman]

Otherway chief as the light for the oil lights up the kickstand light. Pretty much its just a secondary light IMO for the oil pressure in case the first light fails/burns out IMO.

.....
.

I think we are saying the same thing, just approaching it differerently.

......
...
FYI Red Im using the clymer too and it says nothing baout the kickstand acting as a secondary OPS light.

My Suzuki factory manaul didnt mention anything about it either, that I could find. Thats when I thought to look for the owners manaul.

So what you are saying about your 550ES seems to be the same as what I am familar with (650G, 850G & 1100GK). I understand there are some differences on the ES electrically.

And you say you found this diode on your bike. I have not ever found it, but havent looked too hard either. Previously I was wondering if it was in the instrument cluster. BUt more recently, I see on schematic it looks like it is connected to those two circuits somewhere out near two different connectors, and that could be in the headlight shell (on your bike, or others, not GK).

Is that right? You found this diode in the headlight shell?

Thanks.

.

 

[mighty13d]

The diode is on my wiring diagram. It appears as if it is meant to light up the side stand light as well as the oil light if the oil light does come on. here's a screen shot. it's kind of hard to see. but I'll see what we can do.

 

[Danjal]

Just remove the back cover of your main panel. Looking at the bike from the front its on the top left side, on the very top. You'll see the plug come in then it goes into a routing setup of sorts where all the wires are distributed into the back of the gauges and warning lights.