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Intermittent Valve Train Tick 82 1100 EZ

  • Thread starter Thread starter Turtleface
  • Start date Start date
T

Turtleface

Guest
Alright, have a noticable ticking sound that keeps disappearing and reappearing. The bike has 14,200 miles on it. It sounds similar to un-oiled tappet on a V-8. It started after a valve clearce adjustment, but not immediately after. Maybe two or three days later, maybe 100 miles, 200 at most. The only odd thing I found at time of adjustment was that a few of the cam followers weren't solid in their mounts, but I figured that was normal. Going to open her up, again, tonight, and see what I can see. Fiddling with the cam tensioner does nothing. I don't have a stethescope to precisely locate the noise, but I'm fairly sure it's in the top end. It ticks at the same speed as the normal valve train noises. The motorcycles performance seems unaffected, seat of the pants dynometer can sense no signifigant change in power, and no flat spots in the powerband. Noise went away this morning after 10-15 minutes of riding.
 
Put high volume oil pump gears on the pump.
Try http://www.schnitzracing.com/
These motors are noisy beasts. When I first got mine I was checking my valves all the time to find nothing wrong.
I'd check for a loose tappet if you're not sure you tightened them all well.
 
Looks like a plan, regardless. More oil flow is a good thing, so I'll be doing those as soon as possible. On my ride home for lunch, the bike started ticking again, but not instantly. Took a minute or two to kick in, just like the morning ride to work. Started feeling around while one the top of the motor for anything loose, couldn't find any loose bolts or such. Bumped the number one plug wire, noise disappeared. Tried to push it onto the spark plug further, but it seemed pretty solid, not loose at all. Can't get motorcycle to reproduce the tick now. Might have been the plug wire, might have been the bike getting warmed up. Should also add that I live in Phoenix, AZ, and currently enjoying the weather at 81 degrees. Still need more data, let's see if it starts ticking after I let it sit for the rest of the workday. Sound could very possibly be an electrical arc, but I'm not positive.

I think I'm going to start a spreadsheet to document every problem I find on the bike, and measures taken to solve it. Should be interesting.
 
Turtleface said:
Alright, have a noticable ticking sound that keeps disappearing and reappearing. The bike has 14,200 miles on it. It sounds similar to un-oiled tappet on a V-8. It started after a valve clearce adjustment, but not immediately after. Maybe two or three days later, maybe 100 miles, 200 at most. The only odd thing I found at time of adjustment was that a few of the cam followers weren't solid in their mounts, but I figured that was normal. Going to open her up, again, tonight, and see what I can see. Fiddling with the cam tensioner does nothing. I don't have a stethescope to precisely locate the noise, but I'm fairly sure it's in the top end. It ticks at the same speed as the normal valve train noises. The motorcycles performance seems unaffected, seat of the pants dynometer can sense no signifigant change in power, and no flat spots in the powerband. Noise went away this morning after 10-15 minutes of riding.
Click to expand...

Mine was doing the same after a valve adjustment. Went back in and found that one of the tappet adjusters wasnt properly tightened down, and had backed off, leaving a larger than spec clearance, causing the tick tick tick. Once it warmed up, the metal expanded enough to quiet it down, but I would suggest you take a look, if one of those backs off enough, it could spell disaster in short order for the top end.
 
TheCafeKid said:
Mine was doing the same after a valve adjustment. Went back in and found that one of the tappet adjusters wasnt properly tightened down, and had backed off, leaving a larger than spec clearance, causing the tick tick tick. Once it warmed up, the metal expanded enough to quiet it down, but I would suggest you take a look, if one of those backs off enough, it could spell disaster in short order for the top end.
Click to expand...


Indeed, that was the plan. I was pretty methodical about it, but pulling the cover off is easy enough. I'll have to go back in and double check clearances and bolt tightness. How loose should these rocker arms be?
 
the nuts on the tappet adjusters should be at tight as you can get em without stripping them :o Since you have to hold the buggers with a tool to keep them from re-adjusting after youve adjusted them, Ive not found a good way to get a torque wrench on em. As far as any of the OTHER bolts in the head go, your manual will tell you the torque requirements.
 
Turtleface said:
Sound could very possibly be an electrical arc
Click to expand...

Have you ever installed new NGK plug caps ?

When you open her up again please take some pictures for reference. Im gonna open mine up for an adjustment and address those little orings that cause the oil leaks out the front of the engine. Im also contemplating re-torque-ing the head bolts. Id like to study your pics before I dive in.....
 
A bad plug wire that is "leaking" will make the sound you describe &, after your post above, I suggest you look at all the wires for cracking. Ray.
 
bonanzadave said:
Have you ever installed new NGK plug caps ?

When you open her up again please take some pictures for reference. Im gonna open mine up for an adjustment and address those little orings that cause the oil leaks out the front of the engine. Im also contemplating re-torque-ing the head bolts. Id like to study your pics before I dive in.....
Click to expand...

Will do. I plan on going full on scientific with this bike now. Record everything possible and all that. As for the plug caps, pretty sure everything on the bike is dead stock, other than the exhaust, and modifications done to solve the charging system problems. Might be original plugs as far as I know, but everything's nice and clean.

CafeKid, the looseness I was referring to was in the rocker arms, not the adjusters. I'll have to dig through the manual and find the torque specs.
 
Well, definitely temperature dependent. Started ticking about thirty seconds after startup, and continued until the temp gauge swept just past 160 or so, so I'm leaning towards a loose rocker arm, or tappet adjuster. I'll have it open after it cools down, about two hours, and I'll keep you guys updated.
 
Turtleface said:
Well, definitely temperature dependent. Started ticking about thirty seconds after startup, and continued until the temp gauge swept just past 160 or so, so I'm leaning towards a loose rocker arm, or tappet adjuster. I'll have it open after it cools down, about two hours, and I'll keep you guys updated.
Click to expand...
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooo
You cant TOUCH those adjustments untill that bike is STONE COLD. You may make it worse, or worse yet, too tight.
 
It'll have to wait then. Looks like I'll have to get up extra early to make sure I can get in there and get it buttoned up in time for work. How long would it take to normally cool down enough after a fifteen minute ride, assuming ambient air temperature of approximately 80 degrees, and no direct sunlight? I'm chomping at the bit to find out what's going on, but not so much that I'm willing to damage anything. This thing's my daily ride, after all.
 
Turtleface said:
It'll have to wait then. Looks like I'll have to get up extra early to make sure I can get in there and get it buttoned up in time for work. How long would it take to normally cool down enough after a fifteen minute ride, assuming ambient air temperature of approximately 80 degrees, and no direct sunlight? I'm chomping at the bit to find out what's going on, but not so much that I'm willing to damage anything. This thing's my daily ride, after all.
Click to expand...
Because you cant possibly know the expansion rate of the metals involved, you need to wait untill that motor is dead cold. 12hrs at least.
 
TheCafeKid said:
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooo
You cant TOUCH those adjustments untill that bike is STONE COLD. You may make it worse, or worse yet, too tight.
Click to expand...
Out of curiosity, what are the symptoms for both problems? Similar to air-cooled VW motors? Too tight means the valves never close all the way, and you burn them? Too loose and valve timing changes minutely, and it sounds like a bag of rocks?
 
Turtleface said:
Out of curiosity, what are the symptoms for both problems? Similar to air-cooled VW motors? Too tight means the valves never close all the way, and you burn them? Too loose and valve timing changes minutely, and it sounds like a bag of rocks?
Click to expand...
Exxxactly ;) More precisely, on the intake side, the valves never close all the way, compression suffers, plugs foul, you go thru a ton of gas...etc etc. Not likely to burn the intake side, tho i suppose its entirely possible. Exhaust side..you'll smoke em like a Hillshire Farm. Its also quite posible if the intake were all THAT out, the bike simply wouldnt start.. .
 
What sort of noises is a cam chain with a bad tensioner capable of making? Anything similar? It's getting rebuild in the next month regardless, since I'm sure it's the source of the grime on the back of my engine. I can turn the knob on the tensioner to the rear of the engine, but not at all towards the front of the engine. Just want to consider all routes while I have tools out tomorrow morning.
 
I've got a decent quality .WAV file of my engine running this morning. The tick is quite present, as the motor was stone cold. I decided to wait until I get my breather gasket and seals for my tach cable in so I can just do all that in one go. Thankfully, I live in a large city with a not super terrible bus system. Anyone know where I can find a free web hosting service that will allow me to embed the file into a post here?
 
Turtleface said:
I've got a decent quality .WAV file of my engine running this morning. The tick is quite present, as the motor was stone cold. I decided to wait until I get my breather gasket and seals for my tach cable in so I can just do all that in one go. Thankfully, I live in a large city with a not super terrible bus system. Anyone know where I can find a free web hosting service that will allow me to embed the file into a post here?
Click to expand...
Doesnt Photobucket do something similar??
 
Let's see if I got this right.

http://www.mediafire.com/?yzmkayzzwmr

That'll have to do. It's a link to the .WAV file, anyone who wants to check it out will have to download it and play it on their media player of choice. It's a little under 3 MB, and about 19 seconds. I was moving the mic into different areas on the bike during the recording. The last bit of the clip is around the engine area, the front bit is from around the rear right side, and the bit that runs from about 0:06 to 0:11 is what I hear while riding. Once the engine is around 120-160 degrees, it abrubtly stops tapping.
 
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