Is it worth it to remove the head?

[ddaniels]

My bike has this annoying ticking under load up until about 3500 rpm. My uneducated guess is that it could be because of cruddy deposits built up on top the pistons causing pre-ignition (I know it's not really called that). So, I'm considering pulling the head and trying to clean off the tops of the pistons to see if it helps.

First, will I even be able to do a thorough enough job without pulling the cylinder block?

Second, is it worth the effort?

Thanks.

 

[Nessism]

Detonation sounds like marbles are in your engine when you are under heavy load. The noise you describe is more likely a cam chain tensioner issue or maybe cam walk, although I'm not familiar with the later so just guessing. In either case, I'm fairly certain the noise has nothing to do with carbon deposits.

 

[Dogma]

I have the same noise in my 1000GT. It makes me think of a diesel's clatter. I've heard cam end walk (a high mileage GK), it's not that.

I cleaned my combustion chambers via water injection (visual inspection through the plug hole shows them to be very clean now), and it had no effect on this noise. I would argue against pulling the head. I still have the rig I used to drip water into the balancing ports if you'd like to clean your chambers, Dave.

The water cooled the chambers enough to kill the noise until the engine warmed up again. That's the funny thing about this noise. I only get it when the engine is warm, and the effect climbs to 5000 rpm if the engine is hot. Oh, and only when it's under load.

Dave, is this the same thing you're hearing? I'd love to know how to fix this worrying noise too.

 

[1948man]

I have the same noise in my 1000GT. It makes me think of a diesel's clatter. I've heard cam end walk (a high mileage GK), it's not that.

I cleaned my combustion chambers via water injection (visual inspection through the plug hole shows them to be very clean now), and it had no effect on this noise. I would argue against pulling the head. I still have the rig I used to drip water into the balancing ports if you'd like to clean your chambers, Dave.

The water cooled the chambers enough to kill the noise until the engine warmed up again. That's the funny thing about this noise. I only get it when the engine is warm, and the effect climbs to 5000 rpm if the engine is hot. Oh, and only when it's under load.

Dave, is this the same thing you're hearing? I'd love to know how to fix this worrying noise too.

I'd love to see a pic and "how to" on your water cleaning system.
I think the consensus is if you remove the head, you're probably going to compromise the reliability of the base gasket although I have no experience in that area.

 

[Nessism]

If the engine is detonating, try moving up to a higher octane gasoline and see if that helps. Running Seafoam or similar is reputed to clean the combustion chamber, although I don't have personnel experience with how well it works. This said, I still doubt the problem is detonation related based on the description.

 

[850 Combat]

all of my 1000G's will ping under throttle at low RPM's when warm. My brother's does it too. The 1000G Motorcyclist magazine road test posted here also did it.

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=184819

I run premium to stop it usually, only because lately I have been enjoying the feel of short shifting and using the low RPM power with larger throttle openings (even though its probably harder on the motor than shifting at 4000 would be) On a trip, I run regular and shift later using less low RPM throttle. Its easy to ride around it, and i have never noticed it at cruising speed RPM's

The published compression ratio is higher than that of either a 850G or a 1100G. I have never had an 850 or 1100G get pingy on me. I have not noticed this behavior in my 1000E, but then I haven't ridden it much.

My brother completely freaked out about it when his was pinging, and claimed to have trouble riding around it. I don't think his bike does it worse than my three do. He always uses premium now.

 

[ddaniels]

I don't think it's cam end walk. I measured the gaps that are supposed to be there if that is the problem when the cover was off, and there does not seem to be enough gap for that problem. Plus, most people with this problem claim to have the ticking at idle. Mine does not. When I take off, whether warmed completely up or not, it ticks. If you didn't know better, you'd swear it needed a valve adjustment, which the guy I bought it from said it needed. Well, it did need the adjustment, but that didn't fix it. But the ticking goes away around 3500 rpm's. And it only ticks under load. I can back off the throttle, and feather it very very slightly increasing speed very gently, and I don't really hear the ticking. But as soon as I start accelerating normally under normal load, it ticks. But after 3500 rpm, the ticking goes away.

I've tried using premium gas, but it did nothing to solve the problem. I tried advancing the timing, which is not very adjustable on these bikes, but that did nothing. I've tried putting a manual tensioner on and that did nothing for me either. I've since gone back to the oem tensioner. I even tried putting in another clutch basket with nice and tight springs, but that didn't help either. I'm just totally at a loss as to what could be causing this very annoying noise. There seems to be no adverse effect on performance or how well the bike runs, or reliability. It's just bothersome. I had another '81 1000G years ago that was practically identical to this one except there was no such ticking at all. It sounded great. I should of kept that one. Live and learn.

Dale, I'd be interested in learning more about your water injection system, but if it did nothing for you, probably won't do anything for me either, except rule out the dirty pistons as a problem. Do you have pics of the set-up?

 

[Buddy]

When mine gets noisey I just turn the radio up a little and ride on. I get some cam walk noise when the valves need adjusting, some ping from preignition under load, and a click when cold that sounds like a plug wire arching fire. I've checked everthing out and decided to just ride the thing. 30,000 miles in 20 months and nothing broke yet.

Buddy

 

[7981GS]

Throw one full can of Berryman's B-12 in each tankful until it is cleaned up.
It shouldn't take more than a couple of treatments.

Daniel

 

[Nessism]

Exhaust leak?

 

[Dogma]

I'd love to see a pic and "how to" on your water cleaning system.
...

...
Dale, I'd be interested in learning more about your water injection system, but if it did nothing for you, probably won't do anything for me either, except rule out the dirty pistons as a problem. Do you have pics of the set-up?

Sorry, no pics. I didn't have help, and the water tank leaned up against me while the bungee net held it seated in the tank bag. So, I couldn't have gotten off the bike to take a picture of it if I had thought to.

Basically I used a 1.5 gallon sprayer bottle as the reservoir. A few adapters and I had that connected to an aquarium 4-gang air valve. From there, hoses connected to the vacuum sync adapters. With the engine running, I opened the valves until water was flowing into the cylinders. I don't remember why I did all four at once, but with that much water going in, I needed a good bit of throttle to keep it running. Power was way down. All the water vapor out the back must have been a comical sight. Afterwards, the piston tops were free of carbon buildup. The low-rpm pinging was unchanged after the engine had warmed back up.

 

[SqDancerLynn1]

My 850 used to ping !!! That is unril I replaced the leaking intake carb boots

 

[TheCafeKid]

This is shapping up to seem like a pretty common issue with the 1000Gs. Mine did it, but only if I was climbing hills or didn't down-shift when I probably should have. My solution was just too keep her spun up above 4500rpm and the racket went away.

 

[Dogma]

It would be a shame if this was inherent to the design. There's plenty of usable torque down there.

I think Brett once told me that his does not do this. Possibly because his intake is not completely stock?

 

[ddaniels]

Like I said, my first '81 1000G did not do this. No exhaust leak either. If that were the case, it would just get louder and faster with higher rpm's instead of going away. Intake boots don't leak either. Strange phenomenon for sure.

 

[Guest]

When mine gets noisey I just turn the radio up a little and ride on.

I do that with my car, works for me!

 

[tkent02]

They were as lean as they could be from the factory, fuel is different now. Maybe raising the needles by about .42 RCH might be worthwhile.

 

[Graham]

My bike has this annoying ticking under load up until about 3500 rpm. My uneducated guess is that it could be because of cruddy deposits built up on top the pistons causing pre-ignition (I know it's not really called that). So, I'm considering pulling the head and trying to clean off the tops of the pistons to see if it helps.

First, will I even be able to do a thorough enough job without pulling the cylinder block?

Second, is it worth the effort?

Thanks.

My GS1100GL had a little tick when I got it that would come and go. I thought it was valve but the valves check out fine. Maybe piston-slap and sure enough I had scared pistons and a cracked cylinder. After the top end I still had the ticking so I check the clutch. Sure enough only one broke spring left in the back of the clutch. After the new clutch basket the ticking was still there. What the hell I pulled the stator. Sure enough it was burnt up and a tooth was missing off the starter clutch gear. After replacing the stator and the gear the tick still remained. So after rechecking all my work so far it was time to check the crank. Sure enough number 2 rod was a little sloppy and just to make it complete the secondary gears were knurled up. New crank and gears and my tick is gone. After $1300 and over 100hours work the tick was gone. The whole time the run great and only had what sounded like a slight valve tick that came and went. I also discovered that all the valves had grooved valve faces and a stripped-out drain plug.

Yea it?s worth pulling the head for starters.

 

[TheCafeKid]

My GS1100GL had a little tick when I got it that would come and go. I thought it was valve but the valves check out fine. Maybe piston-slap and sure enough I had scared pistons and a cracked cylinder. After the top end I still had the ticking so I check the clutch. Sure enough only one broke spring left in the back of the clutch. After the new clutch basket the ticking was still there. What the hell I pulled the stator. Sure enough it was burnt up and a tooth was missing off the starter clutch gear. After replacing the stator and the gear the tick still remained. So after rechecking all my work so far it was time to check the crank. Sure enough number 2 rod was a little sloppy and just to make it complete the secondary gears were knurled up. New crank and gears and my tick is gone. After $1300 and over 100hours work the tick was gone. The whole time the run great and only had what sounded like a slight valve tick that came and went. I also discovered that all the valves had grooved valve faces and a stripped-out drain plug.

Yea it?s worth pulling the head for starters.

Hrmmm...I'm not saying it's not a possibility, but my 1000G ran (and still runs for it's new, nearly family, owner) and I've seen both the OPs and Dogmas bikes in person on numerous ocassions. If these bikes had the problems your did, after being put through the paces I and these other two have put them through (555 was a great trip btw) I think they'd have given up the ghost by now. None of them smoke a lick, and to be frank, I've not heard either of them make any odd noises so it can't be that loud.

I'd be looking into perhaps checking the timing with a degree wheel, or looking into carburetion issues before I went as far as tearing the motor down.

Obi-Wan Blowerbike has told me he's seen the factory timing off as much as 3 or 4 degrees when measured with a degree wheel. And Toms theory is just as plausible. Maybe investing in a stage one DJ kit for fine tuning the needle circuit is worth a try? Certainly can't hurt anything, and you might find a bit more power even if it doesn't remedy the noise.

Or if one of you wants to try em, I have some MiC Canadian spec adjustable needles you could look into...

Just my useless .02

 

[ddaniels]

Call me stupid, but I have trouble understanding how a carb problem could be causing this.