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G
Guest
Guest
I think your too rich on the needle. Put it back up two notches.
Put the stock pilot air jet back in.
Set the idle mixture screw with the highest rpm method and ride.
Also you do have to drill the slides as Ray suggests.
Put the stock pilot air jet back in.
Set the idle mixture screw with the highest rpm method and ride.
Also you do have to drill the slides as Ray suggests.
K
Katarat
Guest
For the wet float level check take the carbs to a hardware store and get a threaded plastic nipple thats as close to the drain plug size as possable. You can screw the plastic nipple into the drain hole and it will seal even though the threads are wrong and it wont hurt the threads. Attach a piece of clear plastic hose to the nipple and plastic tie it vertical, turn the fuel on and check the level. I hope that makes sense , its the best I can explain it
S
singletrack
Guest
Yes, I did drill the slides. Scariest thing I've done on a motorcycle yet!
The "stock" air jets were Mikuni 160's. Someone had messed with the jets before me. I didn't realize air jets were equal sized between Mikuni and DJ, so putting in DJ 160's did nothing. Should I go back to 170's? That is stock.
I did try turning in the air screws a bit today as Basscliff suggested, they were around 2 turns out afterward. Didn't seem to affect the popping.
about lowering the needle 2 notches. That would put it on the 2nd notch, it barely ran off idle at the third notch, seemed to be a lean condition at 3rd. What am I missing?I appreciate the assistance!
I
ironsheik
Guest
How did you end up making out? I'm currently in a slightly better but similar situation with my 83 gs1100ed. Mine will pop and gurgle a bit at 1/8-1/4 throttle and on decel (when warmer I think). I've got a Yoshi 4-1, K&N filter in the stock box, 120 mains, needles on the 4th clip and everything else stock (45 pilots, stock air jets) and about 3 turns out.
I think I need to tighten the mixture screws just a bit. Plug chops show a perfect ring of gray/black on the ring at 1/8, 1/2 and WOT but a bit too much heat as the ground strap color changes too close to the ring. It will ping once or twice if I open it up under 2.5k rpm in 3rd, sometimes in 2nd. Maybe I need to retard the timing a hair...
There are so many carb threads that end right when it seems like a solution is at hand! Don't leave us hanging anymore!
I think I need to tighten the mixture screws just a bit. Plug chops show a perfect ring of gray/black on the ring at 1/8, 1/2 and WOT but a bit too much heat as the ground strap color changes too close to the ring. It will ping once or twice if I open it up under 2.5k rpm in 3rd, sometimes in 2nd. Maybe I need to retard the timing a hair...
There are so many carb threads that end right when it seems like a solution is at hand! Don't leave us hanging anymore!
S
singletrack
Guest
Sorry, never did post the final resolution. It still isn't perfect, but here's what I ended up at:
dynojet needles (DNT406) 4th clip from top
Mikuni 117.5 mains
Mikuni 47.5 pilot jets
Dynojet 160 air jet (DH160)
mixture screws are out 3.5-4 turns. My popping on decel was from a too lean setting on the mix screws, and I also found some small exhaust leaks around where the tail pipes slip on the headers, sealed that with RTV silicone
The minor issue I had was a bit too rich on the needle jet, my next step was to shim so needle was between 3rd and 4th clip, but I never got around to doing it. I was having too much fun riding the bike to break it down
dynojet needles (DNT406) 4th clip from top
Mikuni 117.5 mains
Mikuni 47.5 pilot jets
Dynojet 160 air jet (DH160)
mixture screws are out 3.5-4 turns. My popping on decel was from a too lean setting on the mix screws, and I also found some small exhaust leaks around where the tail pipes slip on the headers, sealed that with RTV silicone
The minor issue I had was a bit too rich on the needle jet, my next step was to shim so needle was between 3rd and 4th clip, but I never got around to doing it. I was having too much fun riding the bike to break it down
A
AJ
Guest
I'm printing this thread, as it describes well what my bike is doing (exactly what Singletrack described in his original post).
As for air-jet and richness/leanness.... The air jet controls the airflow directly over the fuel jet to aspirate the fuel. In other words, it is dragging VERY dense fuel vapor up to the three holes at the top of the carb, where it mixes with air coming down the main throat of the carb. A smaller air jet results in less fuel being drawn from the jet, hence, a leaner overall mixture. The "mixture" screw controls how much of this very dense fuel vapor comes out the small hole at the top of the throat nearest the engine. Thus it makes sense that you'd need your mixture screw out further than normal if the smaller air jet is installed.
As for air-jet and richness/leanness.... The air jet controls the airflow directly over the fuel jet to aspirate the fuel. In other words, it is dragging VERY dense fuel vapor up to the three holes at the top of the carb, where it mixes with air coming down the main throat of the carb. A smaller air jet results in less fuel being drawn from the jet, hence, a leaner overall mixture. The "mixture" screw controls how much of this very dense fuel vapor comes out the small hole at the top of the throat nearest the engine. Thus it makes sense that you'd need your mixture screw out further than normal if the smaller air jet is installed.
S
singletrack
Guest
Hey Ajay, thanks for the explanation on the airjet, guess I had it backwards. Good luck with your tuning!
I
ironsheik
Guest
So I've got my similar 83 1100ed with a Yosh 4-1, stock airbox with K&N currently most successfully running 117.5 mains, needle at 4th clip, 47.5 pilots, and the stock 180 airjet. It pops a bit on decel but I haven't set the mixture screws yet. They're at 3 turns now. There is the slightest dip around 4-4.5k running WOT from 3k to redline but it pulls the strongest from 5-9k. I'm definitely not rich.
My plugs seem to always look the same with full turn of dark around the ring, white insulators and a light gray tip. It was definitely too lean with the clips on the 3rd ring. If you get it running any better, let us know! I'm going to do some 1/4-1/2 throttle plug chops this week and see what the needle is doing...
My plugs seem to always look the same with full turn of dark around the ring, white insulators and a light gray tip. It was definitely too lean with the clips on the 3rd ring. If you get it running any better, let us know! I'm going to do some 1/4-1/2 throttle plug chops this week and see what the needle is doing...
T
TheCafeKid
Guest
Not to bust your balls fellas, the lot of ya with tuning troubles, but why are you using Mikuni jets?? Those dynojet kits are nearly plug and play. You're making it harder than it needs to be.
Here's the deal. Put your stock pilot back in. Those kits, needles and jets are designed around stock pilot jets. Using a larger jet will not only make tuning harder, but your fuel mileage will suffer dramatically. You realistically spend most of your time on the pilot or pilot needle transition circuit.
Also, the pilot is fed through a port in the emulsion shaft that is in turn fed by the main. If your main jet is too small, your pilot will starve. Which is why the MAIN must be right before tuning any other circuit. You tune these carbs from the main back. First the main, then the needle then the pilot. A stock pilot should have no problems with your set up so long as the correct main jet is being used. Dynojets jets aren't junky. They're just measured differently. One company bases it on gauge, the other on fuel flow or something.
For your set up, you really need to probably be running the smaller of the stage3 kit, or the larger of the stage one kit (there should ve four mains in a stage three kit)
I used a complete kit with my 1100ES in both the stock carbs and then later in 36mm 1150 carbs and the only thing that needed changed was the needle position.
And on the air jet, a smaller jet leaning it out doesn't sound right, he must be mistaken. I didn't use it on the stock carbs but did on the larger 1150 because it was a little wetter than I liked down low.
Popping can be a symptom of both being too lean, or too rich, or simply an exhaust leak.
Here's the deal. Put your stock pilot back in. Those kits, needles and jets are designed around stock pilot jets. Using a larger jet will not only make tuning harder, but your fuel mileage will suffer dramatically. You realistically spend most of your time on the pilot or pilot needle transition circuit.
Also, the pilot is fed through a port in the emulsion shaft that is in turn fed by the main. If your main jet is too small, your pilot will starve. Which is why the MAIN must be right before tuning any other circuit. You tune these carbs from the main back. First the main, then the needle then the pilot. A stock pilot should have no problems with your set up so long as the correct main jet is being used. Dynojets jets aren't junky. They're just measured differently. One company bases it on gauge, the other on fuel flow or something.
For your set up, you really need to probably be running the smaller of the stage3 kit, or the larger of the stage one kit (there should ve four mains in a stage three kit)
I used a complete kit with my 1100ES in both the stock carbs and then later in 36mm 1150 carbs and the only thing that needed changed was the needle position.
And on the air jet, a smaller jet leaning it out doesn't sound right, he must be mistaken. I didn't use it on the stock carbs but did on the larger 1150 because it was a little wetter than I liked down low.
Popping can be a symptom of both being too lean, or too rich, or simply an exhaust leak.
S
singletrack
Guest
Hey CK,
The DJ kit definitely wasn't plug and play for me. I followed their directions to the letter and the bike ran far worse than before I re-jetted. I even called a DJ tech and he was not much help. It turned out the PO had tinkered a bit with the jetting so it wasn't all stock as I thought. I followed the advice of a couple of senior folks here with lots of carb experience and they were pretty much spot on, especially chef (thanks man!) Believe me, I am a fan of KISS (keep it simple, stupid) but sometimes these things conspire against you
The DJ kit definitely wasn't plug and play for me. I followed their directions to the letter and the bike ran far worse than before I re-jetted. I even called a DJ tech and he was not much help. It turned out the PO had tinkered a bit with the jetting so it wasn't all stock as I thought. I followed the advice of a couple of senior folks here with lots of carb experience and they were pretty much spot on, especially chef (thanks man!) Believe me, I am a fan of KISS (keep it simple, stupid) but sometimes these things conspire against you
I
ironsheik
Guest
Totally the same for me. It took me forever to realize that my bike wouldn't even accept throttle with the DJ stage 1 kit until the needles were moved to the 4th clip. The DJ 114 mains were too lean and the 132s too soggy so I went with the Mikuni 117.5s. Needles on anything lower than 4th position made for surging and rough cruising/acceleration until WOT above 4k. Then I was still seeing a lot of popping and slightly lean plugs at slow speed cruising so I upped the pilots. I do agree that the DJ airjets are not needed (for me at least). I've tried every configuration available to me and this is best so far.
I triple checked my floats which are at 22.3-5mm. Coils are getting good voltage, carbs are synched, valves in spec, new exhaust gaskets (although I do need to check the mid-pipe connection which is just slipped on, no clamp or gasket there.) Any other comments? When I do real plug chops, I'll take photos and post them. Thanks for the discussion!
I triple checked my floats which are at 22.3-5mm. Coils are getting good voltage, carbs are synched, valves in spec, new exhaust gaskets (although I do need to check the mid-pipe connection which is just slipped on, no clamp or gasket there.) Any other comments? When I do real plug chops, I'll take photos and post them. Thanks for the discussion!
K
keman
Guest
I have a simple trick to test for exhaust leaks that you may not be able to"feel". I use a cigarette. The smoke from a cigarette held close to the header and various pipe joints will show even the tiniest of leaks with the bike running. Its funny how small of a hole can cause popping.