Just got a GS550E with some issues...

[Nerobro]

Today we checked the charing system again. Depending on how the wires from the vreg/rectifier is wiggled I get anything from the right number, to naut. I think it's time toget a new rectifier...

It looks like THAT might be the problem with my charging system.

Now... there's something else up too. I get 58 volts on one coil, 60 on another coil, and 2 volts on another coil of the stator.

 

[earlfor]

Until you have the charging system fixed and working properly to provide a steady and consistant voltage to the ignition system, It is not possible to adjust a uniform idle, or to adjust the carbs. If the engine does not have electrical power to run correctly, there is nothing on the bike you can check or adjust. PERIOD!!!!

Earl

Well, I've killed my first battery. I bought a new one today. The battery voltage was at 11.45v when I got home from my ride tonight. Twenty miles. It started at 12.45 volts. So I'm not sure what's up yet. I'm going to go through the charging system tomorow. And I have dielectric grease to redo all the connectors.

The bike still idles at 2500 rpm. Depite messing with all of possiable settings that could affect the idle. i'm pretty sure there are no vaccum leaks around the carb. But I will be running a test on that tomorow. A quick spritz of wd40 should help me check that out for sure.

 

[earlfor]

The stator should have an output of 80 volts AC at 5000 rpm on each phase. If it does not, it is faulty and needs to be replaced. If the stator is putting out 58 volts on one phase, 60 volts on another and 2 volts on the next phase, it is not possible for the R/R to have the "right" charge rate regardless of how its wires are wiggled. You need an R/R also.

Earl

Today we checked the charing system again. Depending on how the wires from the vreg/rectifier is wiggled I get anything from the right number, to naut. I think it's time toget a new rectifier...

It looks like THAT might be the problem with my charging system.

Now... there's something else up too. I get 58 volts on one coil, 60 on another coil, and 2 volts on another coil of the stator.

 

[Nerobro]

However... there are other options. I am picking up a new-used GS850 reg. It looks to be a much larger unit, and that reassures me.

What I'm looking at right now is a stator with one toasted coil, and potentially dieing magnets in my alternator. :-/ I can't think of any other reason why two coils would have lost aproxamately the same voltage at 5000rpm.

I am bench testing the rectifier right now. I think part of it is shot as well. Therefore why i'm picking up that 850 vreg/rect.

Looking on the bright side of life, the charging system is nearly at unity. I only lost one volt of battery despite driving for twenty miles last night. Though the bike is garaged untill I get everything properly done on the bike.

Every day I love and hate the bike more I think my bike doesn't have a single transistor in it. that entertains me. Six weeks and counting untill I necessarily need a working bike.

thanks for any advice. I won't try getting picky about the idle and other bike behaviours untill after I get the charging system in tip top shape.

I picked up some dielctric grease, and I'm going to be going through and cleaning all the contacts on the bike. Whatta project.

 

[Nerobro]

Bench testing shows the vreg/rect dead. It works.. sorta. Just not all parts are working ;-) Which could explainthe funny restults while checking the charging system today. Hopefully I'll have a new/used rectifier coming soon. And maybe then my stator will gimme the right readings.

 

[earlfor]

The stator output has absolutely NO relationship to whether the rectifier is new, perfect, old or not working at all!

The stator output is the well, the rectifier is the bucket. If the well is dry, it doesnt do you any good to get a bigger bucket!

RUN THE BIKE AT 5K RPM AND CHECK AC VOLTAGE LIKE I SAID!!!!!!!

Good Grief PAY ATTENTION!!!!!

Earl

P.S. Have your attention now?

Hopefully I'll have a new/used rectifier coming soon. And maybe then my stator will gimme the right readings.

 

[Nerobro]

good greif? Did you see that I did check the A/C volatage on the stator. I'm aware that the two tend to go at the same time. one causing the other to die.

I bench tested my rectifier to make sure that I would not fry another stator, or a rewound one when installed.

for the reccord. at 5000 rpm I got 58 and 60 volts for two of the coils in the rectiifer. And 2 or 10 volts (depending on weather or not the headlight was turned on) for the third coil.

Given that both working coils are 20 volts low that would seem to indicate dieing permanant magnets. And one shorted coil. simply put the stator is toast too.

So yeah. I need to rewind the stator, and get a new rectifier, which i mentioned earlier.

 

[earlfor]

Given your statement below, why would you have made this statement?
(Hopefully I'll have a new/used rectifier coming soon. And maybe then my stator will gimme the right readings.

Earl

Given that both working coils are 20 volts low that would seem to indicate dieing permanant magnets. And one shorted coil. simply put the stator is toast too.

So yeah. I need to rewind the stator, and get a new rectifier, which i mentioned earlier.

 

[Nerobro]

First off. Drop the nastiness. It's not apreciated. If you want to get good results explain why what I'm saying is wrong. Don't scream, you will not get good results.

At this point I know the stator and rectifier are dead. I've tested both. Right now I'm just playing around to see exactly what failed.

From my understanding if you draw more amps from an a/c circut (a winding on the stator) the voltage will drop. (remember the 58 and 60 volts?) I was curious to see if a new regulator would show that two of the coils are just fine. Again, that won't make the third coil work. But it would mean I diagnosed it right.

I don't know much about ac. I work with computers, so I havne't had much experience with how it works, beyond it's behavior in a transformer, and it's related ability to induce voltages in nearby wires. *wonders if this is why he sees 2 or 10 volts on that third coil*

 

[bybowtie]

hey now...Jeesh..no need to get testy.. Thats just Earl, he gets his point across(gotta watch the emoticons) He is probably the most thourough GS'r on this board lord knows I'd be well S.U.T.C sans paddle if it werent for his cander on many occasions.....
From the 2 years I been in this board(incl and off/on period of 8 mos or so) I have rebuilt 2 GS's from the ground (rust actually) and am currently trying like hell to ressurect my 1150 with the help from Earl and other members on the board;heck was on the phone( which I hate btw cant stand talking on them) w/ Earl last night(wife was too) until almost 1 am and he helped a great bit...
If he's asking a question or say repeating something you've stated, maybe its something he's trying to learn or uderstand as well....
Dont take things to personal on this site or Simon may find out!!! :twisted:
Enjoy th bike it will be a great learningexperiencefor you and youll love it more if YOU fix it!
Good luck, Keith

 

[Joe Nardy]

First off. Drop the nastiness. It's not apreciated. If you want to get good results explain why what I'm saying is wrong. Don't scream, you will not get good results.

Nerobro,

As someone already pointed out that's just Earl's way of communicating, no nastiness intended. Although it sounds like you have a good working knowledge of charging and electrical systems, I'd be willing to bet Earl could teach you a thing or two hundred. Just my opinion here, but the best path might be to thankfully accept the help and keep the peace. You may need help further down the line on something you aren't so familiar with and Earl is one great source!

Joe

 

[bybowtie]

OH and rant over

Save your self some trouble. get a trickle charger and disconnect that new battery..It will make life a whole lot easier.
As from my experience you have a rather serious charging issue,If it were me I would try to find a few electrex parts(ebay, is good, bike bandit etc) Get you anew stator AND r/r make sure terminations of both are clean and true.(dialectric grease does help) and go from there..For the terminations you may well need to make you own connections with butt connectors(factory ones tend to corrode BADLY and often break when messed with). If you make them use hig quality terminations and good crimps/solder, this is the one area you dont want to skimp.As for the rotor I HIGHLY doubt its even a remote issue unless the magnet plain broke of...High quality componant thats a paint to work with I know(right Earl :wink: )
After all that it will seem pricey but I would almost (98 %) feel that your charging issues will be resolved.
Then youll want to check all your connections on your bike as you stated make sure you check inside your headlight bucket (thats where your main terminations go you may well have a short in there if you have no signals..Make sure there are NO rubs near the steering stem,Make sure none of your cables get hung up on the bars(i.e gas,clutch,brake)
Check all brakes make sure there in order.
Get a nice inline filter,your carbs will love you. drain your float bowls(if sitting for more than a week or two) replace your plugs, hook up the battery and give her hell....
After that the diagnosis of whats left will be a breeze...
Good luck and enjoy the challenge

Keith

 

[Nerobro]

I'd be willing to bet Earl could teach you a thing or two hundred. Just my opinion here, but the best path might be to thankfully accept the help and keep the peace. You may need help further down the line on something you aren't so familiar with and Earl is one great source!

I'm sure he can teach me many things about these bikes. As it stands I don't understand how the charging system sinks excess energy. This is however something I'm trying to teach myself.

Earl, I didn't take any shots at you. I apreciate your help. I wasn't ignoring you. And I'm sorry if I frustrated you. Like I said, I'm beyond trying to figure out what needs to be replaced. And i'm just messing with things so I can figure out how things died and why. (at the moment I'm betting a coil shorted on the stator and that led to the rest of the failures)

ByBowTie, I'm hunting down a trickle charger tonight. (I get paid today, that helps) I also have made peace with myself knowing that I'll probally need to get the electrix gear. That doens't bother me much. But I'd like to try rewinding my stator, and using a honda or larger GS regulator first. If only for the "I did it" factor.

Along those lines, it seems like there's a dozen different regulators used on the GS's. The ones I've seen for the 850 on ebay look 50% larger than the one that came on my bike. It at least had 50% more fin aera.

I have a fuel filter sitting on the dining room table awaiting instalation.

As for those electrcial conenctions. I've ALWAYS hated bullet connectors. Closely followed by the tamiya style connectors. (r/c car experience showing through here...) We'll see what my budget allows but I have a real love of what were "lightspeed" and now "deans" connectors. (they have less resistance than 10guage wire.. and are extrordinarily secure)

Do any of you have suggestions on replacement connectors?

 

[bybowtie]

youll want something you can take apart,I know a possible corrosion and source of addition resistance issue ( remember every splice adds to the resistance of current so make sure they are good ones)
I say something you can remove because you never know when youll need to test these items again,anything to make it easier on the next guy I say....Youll want a low resistance high crimp( I always add a drop of solder to the bond where the wire terminates) connecter

 

[Detman101]

Interested in these "Deans" connectors.
Any photos?

Dm of mD

 

[Nerobro]

I got the name wrong. Lightspeed used to distrubute the ones I use(d). Duratrax seems to have bought them out. The connectors themselves are lexan. the plugs themselves are tinned copper.
Check them out http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXD176&P=ML

To give you some idea of how well those connectors work, using bullet connectors I was able to weld the connectors togother. (yes melted the metal, with a grand total of 7.2 volts... but that's another story) the Lightspeed/duratrax connectors never even got warm.

Deans makes lots of connectors too... but they aren't nearly as well suited for our application. Most imporatnly the deans connectors don't "lock" they are jusut friction fit.

http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0091p?&C=CGB&V=WSD

I wish I had a good supply of "limp noodle" wire. Stuff with like 40 strands in it and sillicone instead of viynal coating. that stuff made working with bundles of wire a joy.

 

[earlfor]

There was no nastiness intended. We have a tech problem. There are two steps and four tests required to verify the correct operation of the charging system. I avoid working in circles. My perspective is we start at point 1 and complete the troubleshooting at point 4 with the answers we need to correct the problem. Any other path, although possibly interesting, is superfluous.
My "yelling" was nothing more than a clap and a comment that I felt we were straying from focus on the problem. I guess my final comment about getting attention and the following smiley face was misunderstood or unnoticed.

I promise not to yell at you anymore. However, whenever the conversation seems to be straying, I may start referring to you as
Mr. Conehead.

Earl

First off. Drop the nastiness. It's not apreciated. If you want to get good results explain why what I'm saying is wrong. Don't scream, you will not get good results.

 

[Nerobro]

You make me wanna break out a baby picture of myself..... I'm QUITE LITTERALLY a conehead in that picture.

So why conehead? I know the charecters on SNL, but I don't get the refrence.

Though back on topic. I should have replacement charging system parts by the end of the week. *grins*

I'm going with a honda voltage regulator and a stock GS stator.

 

[earlfor]

In the skits, I never knew where the dialog was headed.

Earl LOL

So why conehead? I know the charecters on SNL, but I don't get the refrence.

 

[jonr]

Neobro,

I had the stator rewound and the put in the electrex r/r on my 78 gs750. Before I sent off my stator, I had 50/50/30 VAC when testing it out. After having the stator rewound by electrex and put in their r/r combo, I have had nothing but pure charging bliss (as they put it) - no problems with magnets. I would highly recommnend that you don't go with any suzuki stock electrics since they have a pretty bad track record.

I hope you get it fixed! I want you to make it to the Galena ride!

-Jon