Just rebuilt Carbs on my gs850g, bogging.

[BassCliff]

Hi,

Forgive me if I state the obvious. My purpose here is clarity in communication.

Thats what im trying to do is JEt it correctly for my application.

I just need to tune this thing without the pods.

What is your current application? Current intake and exhaust setup? Stock airbox? Pods? Velocity stacks? Headers only? 4-n-1? Stock exhaust?

Each combination will flow air differently and require a little different jet setup in your carbs. In the carb sections of my website you'll find some pretty good information and links to other pages with jetting and testing procedures.

I am also removing the restrictive muffler and running a open header.

For example, let's say you jet for headers only and get it running perfectly. Then you put a V&H 4-n-1 on it later. The engine will not run the same because the airflow is different. You'll probably have to rejet for the (slightly) more restrictive exhaust, perhaps installing slightly smaller jets.

Im trying to configure the correct jet size and A/F Mix.

This is not an exact science and requires a bit of black voodoo magic art. What I mean is that there will be some testing, some trial and error involved in every different combination of intake and exhaust. Even two of the same bikes with the same intakes and exhausts can require different jetting just because of the range of tolerances within the manufacturing processes of the engine, air intakes, exhausts, etc.

The cool thing about the DynoJet Stage 3 kit is that it is designed for good pod filters and a decent 4-n-1 exhaust. It's basically a "plug and play" solution which takes most of the guesswork out of jetting for the "performance" intake and exhaust setup.

Has anyone tried grinding their own needles? Is it the same as making a drill bit?

P.S. I am a machinist and run a full machine shop. Flight Research engineering.

I'm sure you could manufacture some killer needles if you had the specs. I doubt that Dynojet publishes that kind of information so you'd have to get some originals to make copies. I suppose as long as you didn't sell them it wouldn't be illegal.

Octain, I tend to agree with TCK. Those don't look tapered enough to be DJ needles. But the notches at the top make tuning the midrange so much easier.


Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

 

[NOS]

NOS

Btw if you're building a "race bike" you've chosen a poor platform for it. The heaviest GS made, plus a shaft drive? C'mon man.

Dont bag on the shafties! Shafties are the coolest.

Last time i stop and help a chainer, sheesh. :evil:

 

[NOS]

This is not an exact science and requires a bit of black voodoo magic art. What I mean is that there will be some testing, some trial and error involved in every different combination of intake and exhaust. Even two of the same bikes with the same intakes and exhausts can require different jetting just because of the range of tolerances within the manufacturing processes of the engine, air intakes, exhausts, etc.

I'm sure you could manufacture some killer needles if you had the specs. I doubt that Dynojet publishes that kind of information so you'd have to get some originals to make copies. I suppose as long as you didn't sell them it wouldn't be illegal.

Octain, I tend to agree with TCK. Those don't look tapered enough to be DJ needles. But the notches at the top make tuning the midrange so much easier.


Thank you for your indulgence,

 

[TheCafeKid]

Dont bag on the shafties! Shafties are the coolest.

Last time i stop and help a chainer, sheesh. :evil:

I'm not bagging on them. Look at my sig line. I've owned and own more than a couple. But as a platform for a performance bike, they're a bit limited.

As far as installing an AFR set up, its your bike and your money, spend it however you want, but a DJ kit isn't "plug and play", it requires tuning based on your set up, state of tune, altitude etc. Which is why it has adjustable needles. Jets are jets... Mains don't even enter into it until 3/4 throttle...
Why is this so hard for everyone to understand????

 

[NOS]

Which is why it has adjustable needles. Jets are jets... Mains don't even enter into it until 3/4 throttle...
Why is this so hard for everyone to understand????

Oh i didnt know that, thanks for enlightening me.

Is it possible to purchase just the adjustible needles?

 

[TheCafeKid]

Oh i didnt know that, thanks for enlightening me.

Is it possible to purchase just the adjustible needles?

Well honestly thats what you're paying for when you buy the kit. The jets come as part if it, but all the bucks is in the needles.

 

[JEEPRUSTY]

Thank you BassCliff,

Thats what i was trying to say is that i feel like the kit just wont be giving the best that i can get. How can a plug n play kit work for all states and all altitudes? I am in So Cal and i am Below Sea Level.

Instead of buying the kit for $130 im going to weld in a couple bungholes in my header and attach a Bosch Lambda Oxygen sensor to my laptop. Then i can buy a handfull of needles and start building my own.

I guess a recording device might help out too.. Ill see how much a cheep one is.

hmmm.... i wonder what the comparison will be with a DJ kit vs. a custom tune.



here we go, i think i found what i wanted http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Inno...t=Motors_Automotive_Tools&hash=item563a48b244

It has a guage and logging and pc output. Yep itll do er. With this i should be able to hit 14.7 on the dot.

There are a couple guys on here that have done tuning via electronics 02 sensors etc. Thye should come up in a search I jsut do not know all the terms. Posplayr may have been one of the guys.

When do we sacrafice the chicken?

 

[NOS]

Well honestly thats what you're paying for when you buy the kit. The jets come as part if it, but all the bucks is in the needles.

And one other thing NOS, even though I don't run pods I constantly read the articles on here about them. Know that not every pod reacts the same so keep that in mind when doing your testing. Like TCK and others said, it will be a lot of trial and error - just keep going at it.

 

[NOS]

Let me guess, you have tuned cars or are looking at car tuning info? From the wording, it seems like it.

And one other thing NOS, even though I don't run pods I constantly read the articles on here about them. Know that not every pod reacts the same so keep that in mind when doing your testing. Like TCK and others said, it will be a lot of trial and error - just keep going at it.

 

[cowboyup3371]

And one other thing NOS, even though I don't run pods I constantly read the articles on here about them. Know that not every pod reacts the same so keep that in mind when doing your testing. Like TCK and others said, it will be a lot of trial and error - just keep going at it.

 

[BassCliff]

As far as installing an AFR set up, its your bike and your money, spend it however you want, but a DJ kit isn't "plug and play", it requires tuning based on your set up, state of tune, altitude etc. Which is why it has adjustable needles. Jets are jets... Mains don't even enter into it until 3/4 throttle...
Why is this so hard for everyone to understand????

Hi,

I understand Mr. TCK, really I do.

Mr. NOS, I just spoke with rapidray today and he has 5 sets of adjustable needles in stock (for about half the price of a full DJ kit). Yes, jets are jets, but with the special notched and tapered needles it will make tuning the midrange much easier.

Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

 

[tkent02]

I will purchase the DJ kit Stage 3. I hope it works with my cheep ebay pods.

One more thing, the cheap Ebay pods don't do much filtering, don't flow much air, and are very inconsistent and therefore difficult to tune. K&N, or a K&N clone are much better. Rapid Ray sells needles alone, not sure if he has them for your 850G.
The 850 is the heaviest of the shaft drive GSes, by the way. I like them, a lot of us do, but for racing? Not so much.

 

[NOS]

One more thing, the cheap Ebay pods don't do much filtering, don't flow much air, and are very inconsistent and therefore difficult to tune. K&N, or a K&N clone are much better. Rapid Ray sells needles alone, not sure if he has them for your 850G.
The 850 is the heaviest of the shaft drive GSes, by the way. I like them, a lot of us do, but for racing? Not so much.

Thanks so much guys for the needles info! However i already purchased the DJ kit for $99 on eBay.

Thanks for the info about the pods. The pods i got are called Wstandard. I guess ill set them aside and find some K&N's

Is it really heavy? Seems kinda lite to me but its my first street bike. I realy love the bulyness of it and i seem to flick it around pretty easy. Actually the Big Bulkyness of it is what attracted me to the bike. Why is it so heavy? Even heavier than a 1000???

Do they make a bulky GS like mine in a 1100? Id like to get another one of these, maybe a bit faster but i want it to be big and bulky like mine with the big tank!

 

[tkent02]

1000G, 1100GT, all heavy shaft drives bikes and all lighter than the 850.
You want big bulky and lighter get an 1100E from 1980 - 1981, oh I forgot to mention they are much faster, too.

 

[NOS]

1000G, 1100GT, all heavy shaft drives bikes and all lighter than the 850.
You want big bulky and lighter get an 1100E from 1980 - 1981, oh I forgot to mention they are much faster, too.

And one other thing NOS, even though I don't run pods I constantly read the articles on here about them. Know that not every pod reacts the same so keep that in mind when doing your testing. Like TCK and others said, it will be a lot of trial and error - just keep going at it. http://www.motorcyclememoir.com/motorcycle

 

[tkent02]

No, the frames are the same. The 850 engine is heavier than the bigger ones. All of the shaft drive frames and engines are a lot heavier than the equivalent chain drive model..

 

[BassCliff]

The frame is a twin down tube full cradle design of heavy steel which makes The GS850 so strong that it actually weighs more than the GS1000 (practically the same identical motorcycle with a bigger engine). ---- Taken from website....

Holly smokes i didnt know that. This 850 is really a amazing bike! I found a really interesting website about it....

http://www.motorcyclememoir.com/motorcycle

Hi,

That's Chris's (shirazdrum) website. He's on an around the world trip on his GS850G. I think he's somewhere in the Amazon at the moment. My GS850GT weighs almost 600 pounds wet. The 1000G is at least 50 pounds lighter. In your "mega-welcome" there are links to a lot of informational sites. Such as:

http://www.suzukicycles.org
http://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/index.htm
http://www.cyclechaos.com/wiki/Motorcycle_Wiki
http://www.bikez.com
http://www.bikepics.com/
http://www.totalmotorcycle.com/

I'm not familiar with the Wstandard pod filters. Usually the APE and the K&N are the favorites around here. Keep us informed of your progress. I'm less than an hour north of you. Perhaps we can get together for a ride or a wrenching session sometime.


Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

 

[850 Combat]

Hi,

GS850GT weighs almost 600 pounds wet. The 1000G is at least 50 pounds lighter. In your "mega-welcome" there are links to a lot of informational sites. Such as:


BassCliff

According to the old magazines I have collected, I think a 1000G is only about 15 pounds lighter than a '79 850G, and about half of that lighter than an '80/'81.

I will certainly aggree that an 850G is a great bike. People manage to kill them occasionally, but it must be difficult.

If you want to cross a continenent on a bike you can buy for under a grand every day, I don't think you can beat an 850G. Anything else and the bike might be the adventure instead of the ride being the adventure.

Even the "notorious" electrical systems aren't that bad once you fix the corroded connections and bad grounds, in my experience.

 

[Steve]

According to the old magazines I have collected, I think a 1000G is only about 15 pounds lighter than a '79 850G, and about half of that lighter than an '80/'81. ...

And, if I recall correctly, the 1100 is about 10 pounds lighter than the same year 850. That makes the 850 the heaviest GS made, until you look at the 1100GK, which added about 50-60 pounds of fairing, saddlebags and trunk.

Just in case anyone was wondering, the '80/'81 850G and 1000G have the same part number on the frame.
The '82/'83 850G and 1100G also share a frame with the same part number, but it's different than the earlier years.

.

 

[talkinboutshaft]

some help?

some help?

Hey NOS,

I just pm'd you, don't know if it went through. I live a couple of miles away off the 57, and if you need another ear and some tuning experience, feel free to have me over!