Laid it over gentle, now won't turn over..

[Joel750T]

So, I did something stupid. Tried to get the garage door opener out of my pocket in front of my house while rolling 3mph ish in neutral. Got it before it hit on the left side and highway peg touched but that's it. Was still running then choked out as I was righting it. Smelled gas and may have seen a drop on the ground. Hit the starter and it turned over weakly for 3 seconds ish before I released it. Now all I get is a click when I hit the starter.

Have it on the charger at the moment. New gel cell battery 2 months ago so I don't think that's it.

Any ideas? Is there some kind of layover protection or something or am I in trouble?

Dagnabbit.

 

[Calvin Blackmore]

gosh I have never heard of layover protection

how long was it on its side?
the fule flow would have been all messed up

I would pull the plugs and see if it spins freely

that would at least eliminate some sort of hydraulic locking
of course oil and esp gase would have drained past the rings in time.

but then pulling the plugs and cranking would let ya know
especially if it pukes out anything formt he plug holes.
a cautiouse person would turn it over via slowly spinning the rear tire with it in gear.

 

[BassCliff]

Hi,

I wouldn't be surprised if you had a weak charging system and it's just a coincidence that it manifested itself after your "gentle layover". Charge up the battery and do the Stator Paper checks to be sure. Keep us informed.

Removing the plugs before you spin it is a good idea just in case a cylinder(s) was flooded with gasoline. Be sure to check your oil to see if there is any gas in the crankcase.


Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

 

[Joel750T]

It was over for 10 seconds max?

Off to get acquainted with the stator papers.

 

[Joel750T]

Looks like stator papers investigation will have to wait until I get it running? Battery still taking a charge, though it is only a 1.5amp trickle charger with float. Headlight is bright when key is turned on.

The breather/drain hose that comes out of the bottom of the airbox is wet and smells of gas. A bit wet inside the box as well. I guess that's to be expected? Put my nose in the oil fill hole and didn't smell gas at least. Will be able to tell from oil level tomorrow when it cools completely. (Is that normal by the way when on centerstand and the engine is warm the oil level is above the glass? Comes back down to "F" overnight. Seems like a lot of expansion to me.)

Also, Is it ok if I leave the air filter box off and just try and turn it over after I yank the plugs tomorrow? (I have 3 spark plug sockets, none fit) I don't want to harm anything, but if I need access to the battery for the stator checks, I would rather not be installing and removing that box time and again if it's not critical for a couple seconds of run.

 

[Calvin Blackmore]

Looks like stator papers investigation will have to wait until I get it running? Battery still taking a charge, though it is only a 1.5amp trickle charger with float. Headlight is bright when key is turned on.

The breather/drain hose that comes out of the bottom of the airbox is wet and smells of gas. A bit wet inside the box as well. I guess that's to be expected? Put my nose in the oil fill hole and didn't smell gas at least. Will be able to tell from oil level tomorrow when it cools completely. (Is that normal by the way when on centerstand and the engine is warm the oil level is above the glass? Comes back down to "F" overnight. Seems like a lot of expansion to me.)

Also, Is it ok if I leave the air filter box off and just try and turn it over after I yank the plugs tomorrow? (I have 3 spark plug sockets, none fit) I don't want to harm anything, but if I need access to the battery for the stator checks, I would rather not be installing and removing that box time and again if it's not critical for a couple seconds of run.

not supposed to be above the glass

headlight check on battery would need to be done while trying to engage starter

if it dims when you engage it then it is a weak battery or bad connections ground etc.

 

[Joel750T]

Full charge on the battery now.

I am guessing it is the starter solenoid that I am hearing, it is the brass box to the left of the fuse box under the left side cover. It clicks and that's all I get. No attempt to turn over at all. Just a metallic click from that solenoid, only noise in the silent garage. Any ideas on what causes that and how to troubleshoot?

Thanks for all the help so far by the way.

 

[Calvin Blackmore]

Full charge on the battery now.

I am guessing it is the starter solenoid that I am hearing, it is the brass box to the left of the fuse box under the left side cover. It clicks and that's all I get. No attempt to turn over at all. Just a metallic click from that solenoid, only noise in the silent garage. Any ideas on what causes that and how to troubleshoot?



Thanks for all the help so far by the way.

jumper the large connectors on the solenoid mebbe

 

[Joel750T]

Laid a wrench across them and no difference. Click click.

Put the meter on them and I get 8 with just the switch on and 0 when the starter button is pressed. Actually, I get 8 without the key even being on.

 

[GSX550]

You should be getting pretty close to full battery output when measuring between the posts with or without the key in the ignition. One post is a straight connection to the battery, the other to the starter whichn is eventually grounded. Once you press the starter button you close the circuit and you would need to move one of the voltmeter legs to a ground to get the cranking voltage.

I had a similar non cranking problem after I left the bike outside with the tank off and water got into the starter housing. I eventually pulled the starter and gave it a bit of a spin by hand and then hooked it up to a battery. For good measure I sprayed in some cleaner and then some WD40. I wanted to pull it apart but the water had corroded one of the screws and I could not disassemble it without destroying the head of the screw. It is hard enough to find most parts here let along a screw to hold the starter together.

While not ideal, this did work with only one or two little pops from igniting the WD40 or cleaner residue. Maybe don't use the cleaner and WD40, just get it to spin....

 

[Joel750T]

Hmm. I went out for a recheck thinking perhaps I had misread on the old school needle meter. Had 13v across the poles without doing anything, clicked starter button twice, same result as last night, but rechecked voltage and 8 once again? Battery was not on charger last night since last test. Let it sit for 10 minutes while I started typing this, did a recheck on a whim before submitting and it was back up to 13 again? Clicked starter button again, back down to 8 pole to pole. Hot pole to frame gives a full 13, as does hot pole to screw holding down yellow wire which I assume is from the starter button.

 

[Calvin Blackmore]

Hmm. I went out for a recheck thinking perhaps I had misread on the old school needle meter. Had 13v across the poles without doing anything, clicked starter button twice, same result as last night, but rechecked voltage and 8 once again? Battery was not on charger last night since last test. Let it sit for 10 minutes while I started typing this, did a recheck on a whim before submitting and it was back up to 13 again? Clicked starter button again, back down to 8 pole to pole. Hot pole to frame gives a full 13, as does hot pole to screw holding down yellow wire which I assume is from the starter button.

voltage drop that high would indicate a failed battery
next red neck fix is to try and jumper it

not from a running vehicle though

 

[Joel750T]

Even though I get readings of 13 everywhere except the starter solenoid posts?

 

[Calvin Blackmore]

Even though I get readings of 13 everywhere except the starter solenoid posts?

not sure i read it right

i thought it dropped to 8 under load.

 

[koolaid_kid]

You need to check the battery for current. It can have voltage, but not enough current to turn over. Any autoparts should be able to check it for you.

 

[Joel750T]

Went out at lunch and got a digital multimeter. Getting different results with it compared to the old meter. Old meter is getting the same it was so garbage time.

With new meter:
Battery is 12.72 with key off
Battery is 12.25 with light on
Battery is 12.18 While the starter button is pressed and goes back to 12.72 instantly when key is turned off.

Solenoid is 12.5 with the light off
Solenoid is 12.02 with the light on
Solenoid jumps back to previous values instantly after starter button is pressed.

Any suggestions on exactly how to check if current is getting to the starter when key is pressed?


I have the old battery I took out of it 2 months ago on charge now to swap it out and test that result.

Koolaid_Kid - Any idea if I can do the current test with the new multimeter or is that a specialized box?

 

[Calvin Blackmore]

Went out at lunch and got a digital multimeter. Getting different results with it compared to the old meter. Old meter is getting the same it was so garbage time.

With new meter:
Battery is 12.72 with key off
Battery is 12.25 with light on
Battery is 12.18 While the starter button is pressed and goes back to 12.72 instantly when key is turned off.

Solenoid is 12.5 with the light off
Solenoid is 12.02 with the light on
Solenoid jumps back to previous values instantly after starter button is pressed.

Any suggestions on exactly how to check if current is getting to the starter when key is pressed?


Koolaid_Kid - Any idea if I can do the current test with the new multimeter or is that a specialized box?

I say remove the plugs and jump the darned thing
just for the hell of it
consider it an early christmas gift for me.

being new you may not know we all have a massive and obligatory exchange amongst members.

 

[Joel750T]

Absolutely! Bought the 18mm spark plug wrench today as well (along with 1/2" impact wrench, bless you Harbor Freight). Will be pulling plugs and playing "spin the dunlop" to see what shoots out once my kid goes to bed.

Can I jump it off my truck, with the truck off, or will I just add more sizzle to my life? That's why I am chargeing up that old battery i took out...

 

[Calvin Blackmore]

Absolutely! Bought the 18mm spark plug wrench today as well (along with 1/2" impact wrench, bless you Harbor Freight). Will be pulling plugs and playing "spin the dunlop" to see what shoots out once my kid goes to bed.

Can I jump it off my truck, with the truck off, or will I just add more sizzle to my life? That's why I am chargeing up that old battery i took out...

well do not run the vehicle
i myself would remove it formt he vehicle just as a precaution
but i am scared of electricity

 

[Joel750T]

Pulled the plugs, they all looked good, and were dry. Spun the tire in second gear, nothing shot out, no weird sound Tried to turn it over with existing battery, same outcome. Backup battery still on charger.

Another question. I have one of those portable "jumper boxes" that says it is 500 amps that I used for my old truck. Can I use that to rule out the battery or is it too much juice?