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Laid the top coat, now what?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Guest
  • Start date Start date
We're all pretty much on the same page. If the base coat is a metallic, then a couple of clear coats after the base has tacked up is what you want. To sand it w/o clear will disrupt the metallic pattern. But if it's a solid color and you have a few coats on, sanding it with 600 is a good thing to do. Either way you want it pretty smooth before applying the decals. If there are a few tiny specs of shiny scattered about, don't worry, as long as it's all scuffed, it'll cover up nicely with the next coats of clear. Even though PPG calls for a 4-1 mix of clear and hardener, I find it goes on much smoother with less air pressure and flows out with less orange peel if it has just a small amount (1 part) of reducer mixed in. Just a personal approach. You do need to follow instructions carefully, but a little fudging here and there is OK. I use PPG products almost every day, and they work very well.
 
after closely looking at the scuffed basecoat i noticed i'd have to do a few touchups where the primer started showing through (on the edges, as you would expect for a novice :o ).

so, i opted for another wet basecoat all over followed by two wet clear-coats. also finished off with what you pro's call a control dry coat and that worked a treat. there's some dust crap stick to the top of the tank, i hope that's going to dissappear with sanding :cool:

now, in this scenario how long before i can wetsand and what grit to use? 600 again, or something lil' finer?

cant wait to see the decals on! :D

...patience now, patience... :-\\\
 
attachment.php
 
I have been following these paint threads closely as I will be having a crack at painting my old 84 GSX. Firstly awesome looking job Psyguy, you have to be happy so far..... Secondly now for the noob question are you using acrylic or 2pack????

Cheers
 
taswegian said:
I have been following these paint threads closely as I will be having a crack at painting my old 84 GSX. Firstly awesome looking job Psyguy, you have to be happy so far..... Secondly now for the noob question are you using acrylic or 2pack????

Cheers
Click to expand...

First post, in almost a year? :confused:
Any pic's of your scooter? Details?

Belated welcome, I guess is in order.

Eric :)
 
Clearcoat wetsanding

Clearcoat wetsanding

psyguy said:
now, in this scenario how long before i can wetsand and what grit to use? 600 again, or something lil' finer?

cant wait to see the decals on! :D

...patience now, patience... :-\\\
Click to expand...

600 wetsand will be just perfect.
I believe the product sheets should say either wetsand or tape time on them, most clears take 40-60 minutes to be ready for sanding.

The only time most shops go above 600 wetsand is in the beginning stage of polishing, followed up with some 800-1000 grit, then 1500.
Then the fun begins, polishing, whole new can 'o worms there.
As many opinions in that area as there is among the "which oil is better" camps.

What color are the decals BTW?
 
Macguyver said:
600 wetsand will be just perfect.
I believe the product sheets should say either wetsand or tape time on them, most clears take 40-60 minutes to be ready for sanding.

The only time most shops go above 600 wetsand is in the beginning stage of polishing, followed up with some 800-1000 grit, then 1500.
Then the fun begins, polishing, whole new can 'o worms there.
As many opinions in that area as there is among the "which oil is better" camps.

What color are the decals BTW?
Click to expand...

Most clears I have read say 40-60 minutes to tape and 6-12 for sanding. However, this is were reading the data sheet is very important as every clear can be different even if they are from the same company or line.

I like to wait 24 hours before color sanding but I like the clear harder. Personally, I start with 1500-2000 depending how smooth the clear is and then 2500 using the cross sanding method. Then polish it. I also hardly use any water for cutting as I like to see what I am doing. However, you go through tons of sand paper. Again, this is just a personal thing.

If you have a spare part or helmet, hit it with clear as well and practice cutting the clear.
 
psyguy said:
after closely looking at the scuffed basecoat i noticed i'd have to do a few touchups where the primer started showing through (on the edges, as you would expect for a novice :o ).

so, i opted for another wet basecoat all over followed by two wet clear-coats. also finished off with what you pro's call a control dry coat and that worked a treat. there's some dust crap stick to the top of the tank, i hope that's going to dissappear with sanding :cool:

now, in this scenario how long before i can wetsand and what grit to use? 600 again, or something lil' finer?

cant wait to see the decals on! :D

...patience now, patience... :-\\\
Click to expand...

Yup, cutting though the base coat, or disturbing the metallic layer is why I don't like sanding the base coat. I think you are on the right track; flatten the clear by sanding before applying decals.

Regarding the wait time before sanding, this depends on the type of clear and whether you are forced drying (baking) or curing at room temperature. Read the product data sheet for the particular clear you are using, most require an overnight cure before sanding unless you bake the paint to set it faster.

As a side note, my general preference is for slower drying paints since they seem to be less brittle. PPG 2001/2002 clear was my favorite but its hard to find now because it has higher VOC's than some of the newer clears. The new stuff tends to set up faster which is convenient but I'm just not sure about durability.
 
Last edited:
update

update

I've sanded back the clear with 600 wet to a mostly uniform finish but there are a few dots that i think must have been small bubbles around bits of dust that got stuck in the clear :evil:. I hope these will disapear with the next two layers of clear as it doesnt seem practicable to keep sanding back any further. Any thoughts?

I applied the decals to the side covers and while happy with the overall result there are a few small bubbles of air trapped in a few places :oops:.
luckily most of them fall righ behind the badges so they wont be visible :pray: .
i used the dry method to attach the decals so i think i'll try the wet method for the rest of decals as i assume this would allow for the air to be pushed out more easily.

pics to follow
 
psyguy said:
I've sanded back the clear with 600 wet to a mostly uniform finish but there are a few dots that i think must have been small bubbles around bits of dust that got stuck in the clear :evil:. I hope these will disapear with the next two layers of clear as it doesnt seem practicable to keep sanding back any further. Any thoughts?
Click to expand...

If possible, remove them, if not, try and flatten the tops off of them. They should bury with two coats of clear on top. You will have to wetsand the area flat once the clear is all cured up, then polish it to make it visually blend into the rest of the clearcoat to be unnoticeable.

psyguy said:
I applied the decals to the side covers and while happy with the overall result there are a few small bubbles of air trapped in a few places :oops:.
luckily most of them fall righ behind the badges so they wont be visible :pray: .
Click to expand...

Trapped air bubbles can cause your decal to peel because of expansion/contraction of the trapped air when heated/cooled. (read, bad)
If you are going to clear over them, take a pin and carefully poke a tiny hole in them and gently work the air out. The clearcoat will seal them up so the hole won't be open anymore.

psyguy said:
i used the dry method to attach the decals so i think i'll try the wet method for the rest of decals as i assume this would allow for the air to be pushed out more easily.
Click to expand...

You got 'er Pontiac. Just make sure you get as much of the water out from under them as you can.

psyguy said:
pics to follow
Click to expand...

We like pictures! :D
 
Just wanted to make a comment about the dust..

One of the tricks my painter friend uses when he has to use old dusty paint booths is to wet down the floor and intake air filters..

the dust stays trapped in the water and not flying around the booth when the air starts blowing.
 
thanks Mac

Macguyver said:
If possible, remove them, if not, try and flatten the tops off of them. They should bury with two coats of clear on top.
Click to expand...

i have flatten the bubbles and they now look like a small shiny circles aprox 2mm in diameter.
still a prob you think?? i sooo dont want to mess it up now!! :pray:

attachment.php
 
question:
what do i use to plug the holes for the tank badges' screws when clearcoating?
 
psyguy said:
thanks Mac
i have flatten the bubbles and they now look like a small shiny circles aprox 2mm in diameter.
still a prob you think?? i sooo dont want to mess it up now!! :pray:
attachment.php
Click to expand...

To be sure, I would have to see them, but if they are as small as you can get them, I say go for it.

psyguy said:
question:
what do i use to plug the holes for the tank badges' screws when clearcoating?
Click to expand...

I believe I used a 1" long piece of a round wooden shiskabob stick on the last tank I did that required it. You could also use a long bolt that is the right size/thread pitch.
 
thats the first place it will rust, cause of bare metel screw/ holes
when you put the screws back in you might use a sealer, sillacone or something?
 
good point on the rust from the emblem srew holes! i've let some clear in and with stainles screws hopefully it should be all right.

i've now clearcoated the lot (pics to follow).

the sidecovers look great so that's it :) but the tail and the tank i'm not 100% happy with. the tail's got a few imperfections around the edges (as they are rolled/rounded or raised, if you know what i mean). but that's not going to be a prob as with the side covers now done i know i can get equally good result on the tail. i hope :o

on the other hand, on the tank there are areas that are not fully gloss but more satin. i'm a noob so not sure what might have gone wrong. i think the problem may be that after i sprayed the whole tank i went back to a few spots where i thought it needed more clear (as it looked a bit like orange peel). is it possible that in doing so it disturbed the surface that was already there and that the last spray did not blend in?

i guess the good news is that i have lot's of clear and sanding paper so it's just elbow grease to do it one more time. or a few more times, lol.
 
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